It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship • Hacker News Board

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#111

Post by widforss » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 3:00 AM UTC

Crito wrote: post #93

RandyRanderson wrote: post #46

I wonder which has the higher correlation to instability: 1 formOfGovernmentX - ie democracy, socialism, dictatorship, etc 2 On america's shit list ?

Cuba and North Korea both seem to have more than their fair share of stability, despite topping the American shit list for decades.

And why would an authorian regime in one country justify American destabilization in their territory?

Jesus, I'm tired of american military acting world police pretty much everywhere. I do not like dictatorships, but bombing people into democracy rarely works, as northern Iraq is an excellent example of.

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#112

Post by bioinformatics » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 3:02 AM UTC

pavlov wrote: post #110

coliveira wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other thing that needs to be understood is that Venezuela has decided to become a socialist country. When that happens, it is normal that the GDP decreases as the economy reorganizes itself. But as income is shifted from the rich to the rest of society, most of the population will benefit, even if there is no real GDP growth.

Do you actually believe that an orderly transition to socialism is what's happening in Venezuela, or are you just presenting that as a theoretical framework for some kind of ideal case?

From his handle (and comment) he/she seems to be Brazilian, a kind of people that see the world with red-coloured lenses and believe the next populist is always the best one.

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#113

Post by Crito » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 3:06 AM UTC

widforss wrote: post #111

Crito wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cuba and North Korea both seem to have more than their fair share of stability, despite topping the American shit list for decades.

And why would an authorian regime in one country justify American destabilization in their territory? Jesus, I'm tired of american military acting world police pretty much everywhere. I do not like dictatorships, but bombing people into democracy rarely works, as northern Iraq is an excellent example of.

Who said anything about justifying anything? Did you respond to the right comment? Your comment seems to have nothing to do with mine.

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#114

Post by bikamonki » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 3:07 AM UTC

DominikR wrote: post #9

A country with one of the greatest oil reserves in the world, fertile land, good climate, access to the sea (world trade) and no military conflicts for a century was turned into a population of homeless people hunting dogs and cats on the streets in order to not starve to death - only possible with Socialism. I remember how ten years ago people on my university (in a Western country) were trying to convince me that C…

Last time I checked, Norway, one of the richest and happiest countries in the world, is run as a Social Democracy. Hence, Socialism is not the problem. The problem is, was, and will always be: corrupted humans running it.

In the case of Venezuela, the late Chávez and his friends stole every petro-dollar they could laid their hands on. Obviously, they also made huge public spendings, something that will naturally give a sense of prosperity and economic development, and make them very popular; yet, that public spending was not investment per-se that could later generate wealth. The Bible puts it quite clear: don't give them fish, teach them how to fish.

Now the oil money is gone so is the fake bonanza. Maduro has to stay in power in order to keep himself and his buddies out of jail.

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#115

Post by tptacek » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 3:07 AM UTC

jimmywanger wrote: post #86

paulddraper wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> right-wing authoritarian dictatorships aren't usually ideologically driven, don't pretend that what they're doing is just "for the good of the people WTF? Hitler definitely said he did what he did for the good of the German people (okay. not the Jewish people or handicapped people, but the people that mattered)

Also, Hitler was a national socialist.

Again with "trying to reason from the word socialist is not making you more credible".

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#116

Post by jjawssd » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 3:08 AM UTC

pavlov wrote: post #76

MichailP wrote: post #21

Totally unrelated rant follows. I wonder how a world without main stream media would look like... Would it be a better place? So much negativity, hidden agenda, pay for play, etc. is present, that one would probably be better off staying uninformed, than reading articles with God knows what agenda.

I'm struggling to understand how a world without professional journalists (because that's what "mainstream media" means) would be better. Given the choice of getting my reporting from either pseudonymous posters writing on random blogs, or professional journalists who write under their own name, abide by an ethics code, and are supported by a publishing organization that includes editors and fact checkers -- well, I'…

I surmise that the OP implies that in his hypothetical, ethics codes hold no merit

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#117

Post by tptacek » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 3:08 AM UTC

jimmywanger wrote: post #81

i7i wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However right-wing authoritarian dictatorships aren't usually ideologically driven How is that even a logically coherent sentence...

The quote from here should help http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/33029.html . Basically authoritarian governments want something, and don't really care what else happens as long as they get what they want. Fanatics want to run everything.

That is also not an accurate statement. Authoritarians can be motivated by greed (Manuel Noriega), or by a desired outcome (Queen Elizabeth), or by ideology (Pol Pot).

There isn't a meaningful spectrum that has "authoritarian" on one side and "communitarian" on the other. One is a "how" and the other a "why".

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#118

Post by widforss » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 3:09 AM UTC

Crito wrote: post #113

widforss wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why would an authorian regime in one country justify American destabilization in their territory? Jesus, I'm tired of american military acting world police pretty much everywhere. I do not like dictatorships, but bombing people into democracy rarely works, as northern Iraq is an excellent example of.

Who said anything about justifying anything? Did you respond to the right comment? Your comment seems to have nothing to do with mine.

I may have read too much between the lines. I interpreted your comment that their position on the shit list made them eligible for intervention.

Something like this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12766554

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#119

Post by tptacek » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 3:10 AM UTC

andrenth wrote: post #65

tptacek wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being vague here, so I can't be sure what you're implying, but if you're suggesting that Pinochet was a positive thing for Chile, that's a nightmarish thing for anyone to sign their name to. What am I missing?

You're missing the alternative, which is what Allende was implementing in Chile: expropriation of private property (both farm and industry), hyperinflation, severe devaluation of currency, release of convicted guerrilla terrorists... the list goes on. In other words, what happened in Venezuela.

I would very much like to believe that you are not saying that Pinochet was better than the alternative. And I too think Venezuela is a disaster.

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#120

Post by narag » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 3:11 AM UTC

jimmywanger wrote: post #81

i7i wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However right-wing authoritarian dictatorships aren't usually ideologically driven How is that even a logically coherent sentence...

The quote from here should help http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/33029.html . Basically authoritarian governments want something, and don't really care what else happens as long as they get what they want. Fanatics want to run everything.

I would express it other way. Right wing dictatorships get support in middle class, while left wing dictatorships get support in working class. Middle class is better educated and more loving of order, so it's easier to structure society and even transitioning to a democracy. We did it in Spain forty years ago. Working class dictatorships need more propaganda, distrust elites (except the very people in politic power) and change, so the paranoia is much bigger.