Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines • Hacker News Board

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#111

Post by sambe » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:08 PM UTC

I read this about 15 years ago in a book published a decade or two before that, IIRC. Unfortunately the book did not really make a case, just claimed there was no evidence. It was a book about evidence-based medicine before that was a popular term (unfortunately I've also lost the name the book).

My dental hygienist recently told me that I have to shove bits of wood between all my teeth twice a day. I asked why I hadn't heard this before and for how long, and she said "for the rest of your life because it's good for you". Hmm.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#112

Post by merpnderp » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:13 PM UTC

ewzimm wrote: post #96

gjem97 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's missing the point. And, as an aside, so are all the comments in this thread that are essentially "flossing works for me, so I'm going to keep doing it." The point of this article is not that people should stop flossing, or that it's bad for some reason. The point is that an entire industry of medical professionals were saying "floss because it reduces you risk of tooth decay and gum disease," when in f…

Not everything needs research. Flossing removes decompsosing food from between your teeth. Dentists understand that tooth decay and gum disease result from prolonged exposure to decomposing food. If doctors told me that putting out shirt fires reduces the risk of burning to death, I would trust them without verified research.

"Dentists understand that tooth decay and gum disease result from prolonged exposure to decomposing food." Does the type of food matter, carbs, protein, sugar? How soon should one floss after eating to avoid damage? Does flossing just before bed help? By how much? Should you floss after every meal? How much does it help?

For all we know, sugary carbs that tend to get stuck between teeth do their damage in minutes or a few hours and flossing at night won't help. Or flossing too soon removes enzymes in your saliva that protect teeth from buildup or disease.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#113

Post by alejohausner » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:14 PM UTC

skolos wrote: post #100

MicroBerto wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dentists and dental hygienists look into tens of thousands of mouths over the courses of their careers. It's not difficult for them to see that patients who floss have far healthier smiles, in general. That said, they should get more studies done. You could also be a bad flosser, so even the study could be flawed.

A => B does not mean !B => !A. In US (culturally): "Good dental hygiene" => "You floss". So dentists looking in your mouth can guess if you floss. However in Europe flossing is not as common and the link breaks. All dentists can say is if you take good care of your mouth, not if you floss or not.

Sorry to be pedantic but A => B is equivalent to !B => !A . Still, I agree that US dentists overemphasize flossing.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#114

Post by merpnderp » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:16 PM UTC

charlesism wrote: post #71

StavrosK wrote: post #67

Isn't it about time we got rid of the ridiculous "if we haven't researched it, we know nothing about it" fallacy? Research is strong evidence that points towards something. Lack of research doesn't mean complete lack of a-priori knowledge . If something is obviously good for you, then that's probably a good start for recommending it.

Except even when we have researched something, it turns out we were wrong half of the time. We've only had a couple centuries since the Age of Enlightenment - we know practically nothing for sure (ie: well enough to take for granted). Unfortunately human nature seems to be vastly overconfident, so that's not a popular opinion.

The science was settled on so many things. And then it wasn't.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#115

Post by Someone1234 » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:16 PM UTC

aaron695 wrote: post #108

This is the same bullshit around how fat and salt was really bad and no one could be bother changing that rule, because it might/is technically correct. Except everyone just ate sugar in mass quantities and we never moved forward (and probably moved backwards) We not only need to know if it works, we need studies to know how well so we can compare it to other methods people actually will implement.

I agree that most animal fats are healthy (ex. saturates) but I believe excess salt is still considered unhealthy even by current studies? Or am I mistaken on that?

No disagreement on sugar either, definitely unhealthy in excess (in particularly when artificially added disproportionately to the other nutrition within the food).

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#116

Post by amake » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:20 PM UTC

merpnderp wrote: post #110

gjem97 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's missing the point. And, as an aside, so are all the comments in this thread that are essentially "flossing works for me, so I'm going to keep doing it." The point of this article is not that people should stop flossing, or that it's bad for some reason. The point is that an entire industry of medical professionals were saying "floss because it reduces you risk of tooth decay and gum disease," when in f…

This times 100, because when I asked my dentist if a water pick was superior or inferior to flossing, he didn't have a n answer. Brushing and flossing are basic tenents of dentistry, and they haven't done the science?

> basic tenants of dentistry

The word is "tenets".

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#117

Post by kstrauser » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:21 PM UTC

niccaluim wrote: post #64

There are also no studies on whether parachutes prevent death when falling from the sky[1], but I'm sure as shit still wearing one when I jump out of a plane! [1] http://www.bmj.com/content/327/7429/1459.long

There have been many controlled trials as to the efficacy of parachute braking, although I doubt many have been published outside the military.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#118

Post by codeulike » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:22 PM UTC

codeulike wrote: post #106

Lots of USA specific views in here. How about: Most patients, even if they bother to get the minty-waxed out the box, are exceptionally heavy-handed and macerate their gums like they’ve been chewing on bare vacuum cleaner flex. Even in controlled studies, after instruction, the patients taking part couldn’t floss properly. I know of no dentist who flosses. Not one. UK dentist, writing in the Guardian https://www.theg…

This is an interesting thread to read and think about rationalisations, habits and culture. You have a good control group too: Floss usage is about 60%+ in the USA, and 20% or less in Europe.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#119

Post by venning » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:23 PM UTC

> "It's low risk, low cost," National Institutes of Health dentist Tim Iafolla told CNBC.

Isn't risk something that should be determined by study? I can think of a couple ways that flossing may actually damage a mouth.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#120

Post by dalai » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:23 PM UTC

skolos wrote: post #91

wvh wrote: post #79

My mother-in-law is a dentist. When she heard I always brush my teeth but rarely floss, she told me flossing is more important than brushing your teeth. For once I didn't get into the science of things, but still I accept that getting old bits of food and other junk away from between my teeth can only be a positive thing. It runs counter to my sceptic nature, I like to question everything, but I'm slowly starting to…

My father in law is a dentist in Germany and he never recommended flossing. In fact flossing is not common in Germany and we don't hear that Germans have very bad teeth compared to Americans. So although dentists could notice if you have good dental hygiene I'm not sure they can spot easily if you floss or not. It might just mean that in US good dental hygiene means that you floss, but converse might not be true.

All the dentists I've tried so far in Germany have recommended flossing. The last one actually showed me how to do it properly and gave me a free sample to use until I bought my own. Perhaps things are changing here too?