Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines • Hacker News Board

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#91

Post by skolos » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 1:30 PM UTC

wvh wrote: post #79

My mother-in-law is a dentist. When she heard I always brush my teeth but rarely floss, she told me flossing is more important than brushing your teeth. For once I didn't get into the science of things, but still I accept that getting old bits of food and other junk away from between my teeth can only be a positive thing. It runs counter to my sceptic nature, I like to question everything, but I'm slowly starting to…

My father in law is a dentist in Germany and he never recommended flossing. In fact flossing is not common in Germany and we don't hear that Germans have very bad teeth compared to Americans.

So although dentists could notice if you have good dental hygiene I'm not sure they can spot easily if you floss or not. It might just mean that in US good dental hygiene means that you floss, but converse might not be true.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#92

Post by mcguire » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 1:31 PM UTC

MicroBerto wrote: post #83

foldr wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>healthier smiles You mean healthier teeth?

No. Gums (and possibly even tongue) are also part of your "smile". Could have said "mouth" but smile sounds better. On the note of tongues, using a tongue scraper is a great way to get rid of nasty bacteria that causes bad breath and spreads to the rest of the teeth/gums. Cheap and effective.

I hate to do this, but...source?

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#93

Post by jerf » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 1:31 PM UTC

HelloMcFly wrote: post #63

whack wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that studies have now shown that the effect is not obvious at all. "Since doctors began saying that a string-based tooth scrapping was good for oral health, a handful of studies have been conducted. However, they all fall far short of what’s needed to make a convincing argument. A 2011 review of a dozen randomized controlled studies concluded that, “Overall there is weak, very unreliable evidence which suggest…

Honestly, I only need myself as evidence to the personal benefit; I have nothing to say about the generalizability of my results. I've always had bad, painful dentist visits until my mid-20s. They were quite bloody. Since I started flossing, my dental visits are not painful, and my gums never bleed. When they do the gum measurements, I now get 2s and 3s instead of 4s and 5s. The only change I made was flossing. I don…

I've had a somewhat similar experience, but with a slight tweak. I now actually carry around a container of floss with me in my standard pocket loadout. But I don't floss everyday. I floss when I eat something that tends to get stuck in my teeth, beef jerkey being the worst offender, or when I notice I've got a bit of local inflammation in my gums, which has always turned out to be some piece of food stuck in there.

Given how bad inflammation has proved to be lately (be it because the inflammation itself is bad or because what is causing it is bad doesn't matter much to me if it's bad either way), it's at least plausible that flossing may have an effect on gum disease, but also plausible that it's an entirely situational thing. A habit may be better than never doing it, but you may just need to do it when the situation calls for it.

Ultimately I carry the floss around because regardless of whether it has long term benefits provable by science, it definitely can have short-term benefits of having less inflamed and at times slightly-painful gums because it's trying to use the immune system to remove a chunk of food better physically removed.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#94

Post by tdkl » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 1:34 PM UTC

ptaipale wrote: post #73

MicroBerto wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dentists and dental hygienists look into tens of thousands of mouths over the courses of their careers. It's not difficult for them to see that patients who floss have far healthier smiles, in general. That said, they should get more studies done. You could also be a bad flosser, so even the study could be flawed.

Again, there's the comparison of people who sell ice cream and see that when they sell more, there will be more drownings. Correlation does not imply causation. I think it is quite obvious that people who floss also brush their teeth more regularly, and that is enough to give them healthier smiles. (Regarding the benefits of flossing, I'm agnostic.)

You can brush your teeth like a moron 24/7, but you still won't reach between them and remove the long-term unhealthy plaque with it - it doesn't have to do anything with a profession, but it's a physical fact. Not to mention that brushing teeth ain't proper brushing as itself, since you can easily irreversibly damage and remove the gum if using wrong technique, pressure and hard brush.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#95

Post by HemanHeartYou » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 1:35 PM UTC

gjem97 wrote: post #84

wvh wrote: post #79

My mother-in-law is a dentist. When she heard I always brush my teeth but rarely floss, she told me flossing is more important than brushing your teeth. For once I didn't get into the science of things, but still I accept that getting old bits of food and other junk away from between my teeth can only be a positive thing. It runs counter to my sceptic nature, I like to question everything, but I'm slowly starting to…

Flossing can have benefits. That still doesn't mean that we should be ok with medical professionals making specific claims like, "flossing reduces the risk of tooth decay," that have no good science behind them.

I get what you're saying, but using the flossing flavor of the month argument to prove that point is pretty weak.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#96

Post by ewzimm » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 1:40 PM UTC

gjem97 wrote: post #68

StavrosK wrote: post #67

Isn't it about time we got rid of the ridiculous "if we haven't researched it, we know nothing about it" fallacy? Research is strong evidence that points towards something. Lack of research doesn't mean complete lack of a-priori knowledge . If something is obviously good for you, then that's probably a good start for recommending it.

I think that's missing the point. And, as an aside, so are all the comments in this thread that are essentially "flossing works for me, so I'm going to keep doing it." The point of this article is not that people should stop flossing, or that it's bad for some reason. The point is that an entire industry of medical professionals were saying "floss because it reduces you risk of tooth decay and gum disease," when in f…

Not everything needs research. Flossing removes decompsosing food from between your teeth. Dentists understand that tooth decay and gum disease result from prolonged exposure to decomposing food. If doctors told me that putting out shirt fires reduces the risk of burning to death, I would trust them without verified research.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#97

Post by daveguy » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 1:42 PM UTC

skolos wrote: post #91

wvh wrote: post #79

My mother-in-law is a dentist. When she heard I always brush my teeth but rarely floss, she told me flossing is more important than brushing your teeth. For once I didn't get into the science of things, but still I accept that getting old bits of food and other junk away from between my teeth can only be a positive thing. It runs counter to my sceptic nature, I like to question everything, but I'm slowly starting to…

My father in law is a dentist in Germany and he never recommended flossing. In fact flossing is not common in Germany and we don't hear that Germans have very bad teeth compared to Americans. So although dentists could notice if you have good dental hygiene I'm not sure they can spot easily if you floss or not. It might just mean that in US good dental hygiene means that you floss, but converse might not be true.

> My father in law is a dentist in Germany and he never recommended flossing. In fact flossing is not common in Germany and we don't hear that Germans have very bad teeth compared to Americans.

It's all the sauerkraut. It acts as a natural floss.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#98

Post by robbiep » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 1:42 PM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #67

Isn't it about time we got rid of the ridiculous "if we haven't researched it, we know nothing about it" fallacy? Research is strong evidence that points towards something. Lack of research doesn't mean complete lack of a-priori knowledge . If something is obviously good for you, then that's probably a good start for recommending it.

Your argument is a slippery slope for the acceptance of every kind of pseudoscience.

How do we know something is 'obviously' good for you without research? NOTHING Is so cut and dry that you can make that statement. For example: organic food. Obviously, must be amazing for you. Got two great buzzwords in it: organic and food. Therefore, amazing for you. Does the research bear this out?

Similarly, homeopathy, reiki, psychic surgery, acupuncture.

Vaccines: foreign substance entering our body. Therefore, terrible for you. Stands to reason right?

How could you make such a sweeping statement claiming the higher ground that we must exist in such an enlightened age that we don't have to continually fight the battle for evidence based activities in all activities?

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#99

Post by huherto » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 1:42 PM UTC

flukus wrote: post #3

adrianN wrote: post #2

I wonder why they don't fund proper studies. Maybe because the effect is too obvious to question? My oral hygienist can tell whether I floss regularly or not, so there must be an observable difference in plaque buildup. Subjectively my gums also feel better and bleed less when I floss regularly.

I've never flossed, I don't have gaps in my teeth to get the floss in. My first trip to the dentist in 25 years was a few weeks ago and my teeth were perfect except for a wisdom tooth and the damage it caused. So i'm kind of skeptical of the effect. Edit - I always wonder what kind of toothbrush other people use. I've always used electric ones so I wonder if that helps.

I have tight straight teeth on one side and I wicked with little gaps on the other side. There is a big difference when I floss. On one side is usually clean, on the other is not. It requires a lot more maintenance.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#100

Post by skolos » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 1:44 PM UTC

MicroBerto wrote: post #72

gjem97 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's missing the point. And, as an aside, so are all the comments in this thread that are essentially "flossing works for me, so I'm going to keep doing it." The point of this article is not that people should stop flossing, or that it's bad for some reason. The point is that an entire industry of medical professionals were saying "floss because it reduces you risk of tooth decay and gum disease," when in f…

Dentists and dental hygienists look into tens of thousands of mouths over the courses of their careers. It's not difficult for them to see that patients who floss have far healthier smiles, in general. That said, they should get more studies done. You could also be a bad flosser, so even the study could be flawed.

A => B does not mean !B => !A. In US (culturally): "Good dental hygiene" => "You floss". So dentists looking in your mouth can guess if you floss. However in Europe flossing is not as common and the link breaks. All dentists can say is if you take good care of your mouth, not if you floss or not.