Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#111

Post by Chris2048 » Wed, Apr 27, 2016, 1:56 PM UTC

nihonde wrote: post #97

Chris2048 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Hilarious"? Is that a glib response? In any case, you want me to provide evidence? of what? Why? It's not my job. My statements are perfectly true. If we take reported stats at face value, the UK has one of the highest rates of sexual assault in the world. In reality, they have the highest reported rate of sexual assault. The most problematic of the stats you mention is the crime rate - Japan also has a fairly high…

This whole line of argument makes no sense. Why wouldn't every country overreport old people or underreport deaths, as the case may be? Just about every country has an incentive for pension fraud. So...why Japan? Incidentally, old people are in visibly high numbers here in Japan. I joke sometimes that it's like living in a zombie movie——it's not uncommon to be completely surrounded by only elderly people shuffling to…

What line of argument? It feels like you're referring to an argument I haven't made - The one where I say stats must have their potential for error considered, but only wrt Japan.

Also, some of the links posted here show particular reasons to consider these Japanese stats suspect:

> Just about every country has an incentive for pension fraud.

Not all countries investigate pension fraud equally.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#112

Post by jazzyk » Wed, Apr 27, 2016, 1:58 PM UTC

nihonde wrote: post #98

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Following this line of thought I would assume America is chasing Europe on their imperialist fancy, Europe (modern) those of the British, the British chasing Romes fancies, Rome those of the Greeks, the Greeks those of the Egyptians (and Persians?) and the Egyptians those of Sumer. This probably goes on though noone left writings before the Sumerians (but my knowledge is fague here). I would also assume the invasions…

Great point about Toyotomi Hideyoshi's attempt to conquer Korean and China! I guess the legacy of the Edo period was a kind of reset on that ambition, because the country was closed and not looking for a fight. I would say it was actually the failure of the shogunate to stand up to Commodore Perry that ended Edo and kicked off the outward-looking Meiji. I'm no expert in this area, but I enjoy learning about it.

What about the post-Meiji period?

The attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941 was just a misunderstood act of extending an olive branch?

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#113

Post by e12e » Wed, Apr 27, 2016, 2:05 PM UTC

mikekchar wrote: post #58

adrianN wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What job did you have during that time? Living in rural Japan sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me.

I was teaching English at the time. I'm currently in the same area programming on contract. It is quite wonderful. To be honest I'm hoping to expand and hire people, but haven't got everything sorted out yet. It occurred to me that it might be possible to find good people who want to live in rural Japan :-). Probably won't get my act together for another year or so...

Things must've changed a bit since I spent a year in Fukoka in 97/98 while in secondary school, if people can live comfortably on 2M JPY/year. That means I should be able to easily save up enough to stay comfortably in (rural) Japan for the length of a tourist visa without any problem!

Please do send an email (see profile) if/when you're interested in expanding -- it would be great to be able to move to Japan! :-)

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#114

Post by hackuser » Wed, Apr 27, 2016, 2:09 PM UTC

nihonde wrote: post #43

It's depressing to read all the misguided commentary about Japan in western media. We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations, which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates. Japan will endure, as it has for thousands of years. I'm more worried about where America and Europe are headed. Prosperity is one thing. Greed, corruption, and exploitation are ano…

What does 'endure' mean? It dismisses the very real suffering of others, which depends on economics, demographics, politics, and other big issues.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#115

Post by nihonde » Wed, Apr 27, 2016, 2:14 PM UTC

jazzyk wrote: post #110

nihonde wrote: post #43

It's depressing to read all the misguided commentary about Japan in western media. We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations, which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates. Japan will endure, as it has for thousands of years. I'm more worried about where America and Europe are headed. Prosperity is one thing. Greed, corruption, and exploitation are ano…

>You can't put a price on peace of mind The peace of mind may not last too long. The Japanese public debt exceeded one quadrillion yen (US$10.46 trillion) in 2013, more than twice the annual gross domestic product of Japan [1]. >general atmosphere of civility and willingness to come together for a common cause. Yes, the US could use a bit more civility. But in Japan, the "willingness to come together" comes at a pric…

I have this thought that I want to express to you but I fear that it will prompt disagreement or come across as confrontational or dismissive when I really mean it in the spirit of compassion. I will do my best:

The words you wrote reflect a state of mind that seeks a negative outcome. I'm sure you don't intend it, but you adopt a half-empty perspective. It's the same tone that the mainstream news media uses when it turns its attention to Japan.

I wish I could convey to you how much that mindset is a symptom of a sickness in your environment. I don't mean to sound condescending, but it was an important revelation for me to learn that my tendency to express unhelpful skepticism and pessimism is, in fact, not inherent to myself but rather is a feature of the condition around me.

I'm sorry if it is too abstract or rude, but I encourage you to seek a more hopeful outlook. We could trade evidence of ruination of east and west all day (night for me), but what would we have accomplished? I'd prefer if we (perhaps naively) focus on those things each side is doing well. That can really move the world forward!

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#116

Post by nihonde » Wed, Apr 27, 2016, 2:20 PM UTC

achamayou wrote: post #76

nihonde wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in America for almost 40 years. I'm familiar with the place.

I wasn't suggesting otherwise. I've lived in Japan and in Europe for a number of years, and I've always found that the respective media failed to describe the other place in a way that I felt was accurate. I've come to be rather amused by that, that's all. For what it's worth I do agree with you, for all the doom and gloom about Japan post-recession in the western media, it is very good place to live. I do believe th…

Yes! The media is a pernicious influence. We hear this so often, but it seems insurmountable and inevitable.

In Japan, the media is complicit in silence about many important issues, but it is also overwhelmingly positive in tone. Television in Japan is either hilarious, emotional, or informative. When I went to the US embassy in Osaka, they had CNN on in the waiting room and I wanted to weep for my countrymen.

It is like a poison gas in the air——you can know it's there and that it's not good for you, but that won't alter the effect that it has.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#117

Post by jazzyk » Wed, Apr 27, 2016, 2:21 PM UTC

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #65

adrianN wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDP per capita hasn't changed all that much since the late 90's. I wouldn't call that a recession.

Unemployment has remained very low as well, considering their demographic changes Japan is doing quite well.

Yes, but low unemployment comes at a price.

Most domestic companies are shielded from competition, and can employ many more people than they should. These companies are backed by the central bank (BoJ), which has been printing money left and right, and now owns more than half of the nation’s market for exchange-traded stock funds[1].

[1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-28/owning-hal...

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#118

Post by nihonde » Wed, Apr 27, 2016, 2:24 PM UTC

jazzyk wrote: post #112

nihonde wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great point about Toyotomi Hideyoshi's attempt to conquer Korean and China! I guess the legacy of the Edo period was a kind of reset on that ambition, because the country was closed and not looking for a fight. I would say it was actually the failure of the shogunate to stand up to Commodore Perry that ended Edo and kicked off the outward-looking Meiji. I'm no expert in this area, but I enjoy learning about it.

What about the post-Meiji period? The attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941 was just a misunderstood act of extending an olive branch?

(Again my views only.) I think it was a direct reaction to the aggression of 1853. It was preceded by posturing/maneuvering in the South Pacific if I'm not mistaken. To be clear, I don't think it was justified or proportionate, but I do think those events were closely linked in that Japan saw Americans as encroaching on their sovereignty and an imminent threat from the "East".

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#119

Post by nihonde » Wed, Apr 27, 2016, 2:27 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #108

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Following this line of thought I would assume America is chasing Europe on their imperialist fancy, Europe (modern) those of the British, the British chasing Romes fancies, Rome those of the Greeks, the Greeks those of the Egyptians (and Persians?) and the Egyptians those of Sumer. This probably goes on though noone left writings before the Sumerians (but my knowledge is fague here). I would also assume the invasions…

In the cases of America and the British, and Rome and the Greeks, this was explicitly true. As for Europe, it's not a country and doesn't move as a unit. Different European countries were pioneers in imperialism, others were latecomers, others were mostly shut out and ended up doing more desperate, brutal invasions in less appealing places.

There were so many peaks and valleys of European empires, it's easy to lump them into one. You're right, though——it's not fair to conflate Rome with Byzantium, Hapsburghs, Belgium, Netherlands, France, etc.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#120

Post by xg15 » Wed, Apr 27, 2016, 2:28 PM UTC

"[The corporate-welfare system] has declined in the years since the administration of former Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi ended a ban on the use of non-regular workers in manufacturing. But much of the shift to low-paid, insecure jobs has happened without major changes in policy. In particular, stringent government protections of regular workers have been kept in place."

Am I reading this wrong? So the author acknowledges that there is a shift from regular to irregular jobs - and then wonders how that could lead to poverty as, after all, the regular jobs are still protected...

This looks to me like seeing a conundrum where none actually is.