Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Developer Formerly Known as FreeBSDGirl

blog.randi.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 232 posts

Re: The Developer Formerly Known as FreeBSDGirl

#111

Post by andallas »

freebsdgirl wrote: post #31
andallas wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, but I think they were talking about past events maybe? Their is a history between FreeBSDGirl and the roosh guy. (By history, I mean going back and forth online, not a personal history).

Citation needed. I've never talked to him (or, for that matter, the person that said they know all the parties involved).

That's a nice trap there. If I don't mention anything, you'll claim (or at least there will be a tacit implication) that you've "won" any argument here.

However if I do provide sources (articles written by you and/or rooshv), tweets, whatever, then there is the implication I'm "stalking" you or him. I'd rather not get involved in any such drama.

To be clear, by history I meant that the two of you have both written/talked/tweeted about each other (in generally negative ways). My intent there was to agree with the person who commented about how this whole situation is a "shit sandwich".

Re: The Developer Formerly Known as FreeBSDGirl

#112

Post by Jogyn »

lillian-lemmer wrote: post #45
Pharaoh2 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shit storm, which might have had meaning at some point but it's now mostly a way to grab attention by a group of people, mostly looking for ways to make money out of it.

No. This is about women wanting their safety prioritized over others' "right" to treat women like garbage.

No This is about maintaining the productivity and integrity of projects against regressive groups that feel the need to force ridiculous code's of conduct on communities in order to pander to a group of people trying to politicize open source projects and use them to further their own "harassment" fueled agendas.

Re: The Developer Formerly Known as FreeBSDGirl

#113

Post by dang »

freebsdgirl wrote: post #89
ps4fanboy wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact you are illustrating my point, by doing that she increased the chances of outsiders "trolls" appearing, then we see a follow up article pointing all the death threats/harassment that those new accounts saying "look at how problematic HN is". I am grateful the mods stopped new accounts from posting before this could happen. EDIT: Someone else having a counter opinion to yours shouldn't make you feel so threate…

If outside trolls appeared, I'd blame the trolls, not HN. It's fairly easy to see what accounts are new. There have been controversial posts of mine on HN before where new accounts did show up to try to stir up trouble. I challenge you to find any post where I decried HN because of that happening.

Trolls show up in these threads no matter what. It wasn't because of your link.

Re: The Developer Formerly Known as FreeBSDGirl

#114

Post by fche »

Tomte wrote: post #3

She's talking about some guy and his "campaign to legalize rape". I thought she was exaggerating or maybe misunderstanding something. Sure, this guy is probably an asshole, but legalizing rape, come on! I followed the link and... it is kind of almost entertaining. He means it. Literally. You can't stop reading that trainwreck of an argument, because it gets worse and worse. And then you've lost all hope in mankind. I…

Randi talked about several different guys. Her main beef seems to be with the unnamed FreeBSD committer.

She refers to other people ("neo-nazi friends") with whom that person communicates on twitter / etc., one of whom is rooshv, who wrote that absurd "campaign to legalize rape" article.

Re: The Developer Formerly Known as FreeBSDGirl

#115

Post by geofft »

dietrichepp wrote: post #99
geofft wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Crucified" is an obvious exaggeration, but the article does contain "Last, I wanted this developer removed from the project and the IRC channel." I don't know anything about what happened here more than what's public, but it's totally imaginable to me that if you make that an ultimatum, and the project leadership hasn't given itself a reasonable way to do that, it's difficult for them to respond usefully. Maybe the…

I'm sorry, but this post (yours) and the original post (kev009's) seem like unreasonable exaggerations. Emphasis on the "unreasonable". Unreasonable exaggerations of other people's viewpoints fosters low-quality discussion, which is why I don't like it. Banning is a common response to harassment. Hacker News uses it, we even have multiple types of banning, including the shadowban and hellban. We know that "crucifixio…

Yeah, "ultimatum" is a somewhat strong word. I do want to be clear that I don't mean that it was in any way an ridiculous request/demand/ultimatum: expelling them from the community would in my opinion have been the right thing to do, and in my opinion is an entirely fair thing to insist on and not be willing to compromise on.

What I mean to convey is that, if someone makes a demand that they're unwilling to compromise on or discuss, and you're are unable to satisfy the demand as stated, regardless of whether you want to seek a resolution along those lines, you have no good options. Of course in a healthy project there wouldn't be much need to discuss banning people who are harassing other community members. But mechanically it still has the downside of an ultimatum, even if the connotation of the term is wrong.

That is why I chose that word, and I apologize for not having been clearer about what I meant with it.

I do agree that greater willingness to use implicit political authority is generally a good thing for healthy projects. (Though maybe there is something complicated like not actually having technical control of the relevant IRC channels or something annoying like that, I don't know. In some open-source projects I'm active in, the core teams' ability to respond to harassment is somewhat weakened or at least rate-limited by using IRC servers, code-review forums, etc. run by unrelated teams, and I've seen people be hurt by abusers taking advantage of this technical limitation.)

Re: The Developer Formerly Known as FreeBSDGirl

#116

Post by kev009 »

awesomerobot wrote: post #109
kev009 wrote: post #6

I know most of the people involved in this and it's just a shit sandwich. Randi wanted a person crucified, that's not how companies and foundations function, and thankfully so. I hope she finds success in new endeavors and am sad she had to leave under gross circumstance.

that's not how companies and foundations function What? If a co-worker started disparaging me on Facebook and sharing private chat logs publicly... they'd be reprimanded at the very least, and if the behavior continued they'd be gone. This is exactly why companies have HR policies.

They would be quietly let go

Re: The Developer Formerly Known as FreeBSDGirl

#117

Post by dang »

Jogyn wrote: post #98
scholia wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She has, like a lot of women, been harassed by GamerGate. They actually sent a police SWAT team to break down her door (which they didn't). http://blog.randi.io/2015/04/03/swated/ She's been viciously attacked in Breitbart, a far right-wing site that championed GamerGate's hounding of women in tech. She also created a useful tool to block GamerGate hate attacks on Twitter. It's the sort of thing a lot of women could…

So your sources are a clickbait rag, Randi Harper (notorious crybully) and an article which contains no evidence of GamerGate doing anything but instead an article with 4chan not actually doing anything but being 4chan. Well, I'm sold.

Personal attacks are not allowed on Hacker News. Please keep them out of your comments here.

Re: The Developer Formerly Known as FreeBSDGirl

#118

Post by andallas »

enraged_camel wrote: post #105
DanBC wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see behaviour you dislike and don't understand and you can say either "they are unpleasant people" or "they are unpleasant people and they have a mental illness". Probability tells us the first is more probable. This is the conjunction fallacy, and you need to address it because stigmatising people with mental illness causes those people harm, and doesn't help address the actual problem (which is that some people…

>>which is that some people are arseholes A lot of people who are assholes aren't actually assholes, but suffer from a mental disorder such as asperger's syndrome. By lumping all of them under the offensive label "asshole" I'd posit that you are the one stigmatizing them. Regardless, I think the question we need to ask ourselves is this: what is it about the gamer community, and specifically the "GamerGate" sub-commu…

I understand how you were just trying to make a point, but it just doesn't make any sense.

You say that "people who are assholes, aren't assholes". Well... are they or aren't they?

Then you say that they may be suffering from Asperger's and that the commenter above is lumping them together.

The issue with this argument is that the commenter above took problem with the other commenter about saying these perceived assholes have a mental illness, and how that negatively impacts those who actually have a mental illness. Your argument (metaphor?) is that by saying someone is an asshole is lumping those with Asperger's in, when Asperger's wasn't even mentioned.

Regardless of how your metaphor didn't actually make any sense, you then go on to say that "GamerGate" sub-community (what does that honestly even really mean???) attracts 'such people', implying that GamerGate is full of people with Asperger's. Then imply that something needs to 'be done about it'.

What is wrong with people with Asperger's? Why are you picking on them?

Re: The Developer Formerly Known as FreeBSDGirl

#119

Post by dang »

andallas wrote: post #94

Thanks for the vicious attach. I consider myself as 'GamerGate' and like MOST of that community haven't participated in any such 'toxic' non-sense. I get it, you hate some bad people who try to cling to a name for recognition, but just broadly labeling the whole group as such, when literally your only evidence is of a few notable individuals is a bit unsettling. In reality, the waters are a bit dirty on both sides. T…

> Thanks for the vicious attack

Please don't. Also, it seems to me that you're taking this thread off-topic and violating the HN guideline that asks you to avoid classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them. (Even if you did, this is probably a bad place for it.)

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10820199 and marked it off-topic.

Re: The Developer Formerly Known as FreeBSDGirl

#120

Post by geofft »

dogma1138 wrote: post #104
awesomerobot wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems weird to say "this shitty thing happens to me too" and instead of commiserating and saying "this shitty thing shouldn't happen to anyone" you essentially say "stop complaining."

"this shitty thing shouldn't happen to anyone" you are not going to abolish "harassment" (I intentionally used quotation marks I don't some one who uses slur or thinks you shouldn't exist as harassment just another idiot with an opinion...) from human cloture it's included in the price you pay for living in a free society where free speech is an actuality and not a slogan. You won't cure the world of idiots, troll, o…

I'm not entirely sure that it's to the advantage of an operating system development project to have free speech as an ideal.

At the very least, there's the empirical argument that the major operating systems are overwhelmingly developed by private corporations, and you can be sure that if a developer said "hey, this new hire is getting his white supremacist followers on Twitter to attack me," the new hire wouldn't be working on that project very much more. And we generally don't find the price of this less-than-free speech too much to pay.

Can you explain why it helps develop a better net installer or Linux emulation layer to be able to use slurs against fellow developers?

Post reply on HN