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Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#101

Post by jmadsen »

makeitsuckless wrote: post #12

I've repeated this dozens of times whenever Americans come up with lame excuses for why cycling is dangerous in the US: in the Netherlands cyclists still share the road with cars a lot of the time. The rules however are very simple: as a driver, you're not allowed to hit weaker traffic like cyclists and pedestrians. Period. If it happens, the burden of proof that you could do nothing about it is on you. Is this insan…

I don't understand why people would have trouble with that, unless they are arguing from a purely selfish perspective.

It is essentially "Marine Law" - the most maneuverable must make way way for lesser. Perfect common sense.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#102

Post by huuu »

makeitsuckless wrote: post #12

I've repeated this dozens of times whenever Americans come up with lame excuses for why cycling is dangerous in the US: in the Netherlands cyclists still share the road with cars a lot of the time. The rules however are very simple: as a driver, you're not allowed to hit weaker traffic like cyclists and pedestrians. Period. If it happens, the burden of proof that you could do nothing about it is on you. Is this insan…

There is a lot more going on in the Netherlands.

People start riding a bike when they are 2 years old. So everybody knows how fragile you are on a bike.

Most roads cars and cyclist share are 30 km/h roads.

You need to have lights while driving at night.

And so on.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#103

Post by Sharlin »

keyanp wrote: post #27

This article is mostly nonsense. The way I look at it, mandatory helmet laws are protecting not only cyclists but also drivers by reducing the likelihood of a serious injury resulting from an accident. In regards to improving bike-ability, adding more bike lanes is certainly the best way forward. Meanwhile we can encourage responsible bike use for those who share the roadways with motor vehicles. I'm frankly appalled…

There's some fascinating data hinting that drivers behave more recklessly towards cyclists who wear a helmet, presumably thinking that a collision won't be so big a deal if the cyclist is "protected".

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#104

Post by ptaipale »

buro9 wrote: post #30
PebblesHD wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Registration and Insurance isn't a bad idea actually...

London has over 6,000 cycles that are registered with clearly visible numbers, and with the cyclist on the bike known. It's called the cycle hire scheme. In this time, not a single cyclist has been tried for anything, and yet several of them have been killed by HGVs. Registrations aren't stopping cyclist fatalities.

It is notable, though, that almost all London bike deaths seem to be from being run over by HGVs. Cyclists (stereotypically) loathe cars, but are not killed by cars.

I don't really have own experience of London traffic, but from reading newspapers, it looks like you should do less to cars and more to heavy goods vehicles and buses.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#105

Post by timwaagh »

kika wrote: post #92

The article calls for crackdown on drivers and may be rightfully so, but. I came to the US from the country where road laws are based on the concept of "operator of the dangerous machine". Such an operator is at fault by default and have to prove their innocence. End even if they do, they still have to compensate medical expenses. Such compensations are not as ridiculously high as they are in the US but still may be…

as a native of the coutry ywhich is generally considered cyclist heaven (netherlands) bike lanes are quite nice. i did not have any problem cycling to work today. its safe and i get my exercise. infrastructure works. and yes cars are dangerous machines. people should be careful with them. its a lot of responsibility. but criminalisation is just stupid. that doesn't happen in countries which prioritize road safety.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#106

Post by joncrocks »

micheljansen wrote: post #11
rkischuk wrote: post #3

Almost every time I encounter cyclists in traffic, they context switch between vehicle and pedestrian at their convenience. If you want to be treated as a vehicle, be a vehicle. Don't block a lane between intersections and then ride the divider lines to advance ahead of cars at every intersection so they can wait and merge around you once the light turns. As a former bike commuter, I really don't understand why bikes…

The thing is, they are neither, really. Bicycles are not comparable to motor vehicles, as they are much slower (50 km/h vs ~15-20 km/h). Bicycles are also not comparable to pedestrians, as they are much faster (5 km/h vs ~15-20 km/h). I think it's a mistake to mix traffic that differs in speed by a factor of 3. As someone who moved from the Netherlands to London, it has taken me years to adjust to absence of real bic…

Does that mean we can get 'fast walker' and 'slow walker' lanes as well? :-)

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#107

Post by santaclaus »

gorekee wrote: post #62
Nrsolis wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come to NYC. We have Citibike here and messengers and delivery people on bikes. And it's horrible. The bicyclists ROUTINELY violate nearly every sane traffic law on the books. They go the wrong way against traffic, refuse to stop for stop lights or pedestrians in crosswalks, ride on sidewalks, have few if any safety features like headlights or taillights, and on and on. If cyclists would simply follow the traffic law…

> If cyclists would simply follow the traffic laws that already exist Yes, but bicycles are no cars. So the city need also to come up with bike lanes and adequate regulations. It is too easy to blame the participant which has no real place in traffic.

It is amazing what you find in bike lanes in NYC [1].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzE-IMaegzQ

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#108

Post by maaaats »

pandaman wrote: post #84
birken wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a cyclist and I completely disagree with this. I've biked thousands and thousands of miles in SF, and I think probably 80 or 90% of cyclists are responsible and law abiding. There are maybe 10 or 20 percent who are bad, run red lights and do other crazy shit. They are not the majority. And if you want further proof, just read the list of bicycle fatalities in SF [1] and see who is at fault. Most of the time it is…

Maybe cyclists in SF are so special, but in LA I have yet to see a cyclist stopping at a stop sign. I walk to/from work about 2 miles each way and see about a dozen cyclists every day. Sure, cars some times do not stop at the sign either but I don't see this happening nearly as often as I see cyclists just happily cycling through stop without even an attempt to slow down. And I see much more cars than bikes.

Of course you have seen a bicycle stop for a stop sign. No need to lie, it throws away all points you're trying to make. Besides, this is the typical confirmation-biased anecdotes that pollutes these discussions.

Have you thought of why this is so common? A bicycle uses human power, stopping is a much bigger hassle than sitting lazily in a car. And a bicycle approaches a stop sign much slower than a car, this having a better overview before crossing.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#109

Post by ThrustVectoring »

claudius wrote: post #88
yitchelle wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They seem far more compatible to ride sidewalks and co-travel with pedestrians. Pedestrians and bike riders are not compatible either. I am a bike commuter as well. I live in West Germany at the moment, but I have also bike commuted to work in Australia. In general, commuting in Germany is a much safer proposition than in Australia. The German drivers seem to be more aware and tolerance to the bike commuters. The b…

I’m cycling to work in Munich at the moment. There’s a little piece (~800m) of one-way street with traffic lights at both ends. Due to the layout of the initial traffic lights, cyclists usually enter that street before traffic, as they have to obey their special bike-traffic-light. On that street, cars attempt and do pass by me every day, despite there definitely not being enough room for a bike and a car to move nex…

IMO, if you're going fast enough and there isn't room for cars to pass, you should be riding down the center of the lane. Especially if there's hazards in the bike lane.

Don't let people do stuff that compromises your safety.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#110

Post by maaaats »

kika wrote: post #92

The article calls for crackdown on drivers and may be rightfully so, but. I came to the US from the country where road laws are based on the concept of "operator of the dangerous machine". Such an operator is at fault by default and have to prove their innocence. End even if they do, they still have to compensate medical expenses. Such compensations are not as ridiculously high as they are in the US but still may be…

Why do you write this as if driving drunk is okay?
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