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Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

washingtonpost.com

21–30 of 186 posts

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#21

As a cyclist, I am more than happy to see tech that makes me more visible! Why are people up in arms!!? So stupid.

He's not in arms against the tech, but rather against the laws that make them mandatory. Because it encourages motor vehicle drivers even more to not properly pay attention because they're not the ones at fault when hitting a cyclist.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#22

I've repeated this dozens of times whenever Americans come up with lame excuses for why cycling is dangerous in the US: in the Netherlands cyclists still share the road with cars a lot of the time. The rules however are very simple: as a driver, you're not allowed to hit weaker traffic like cyclists and pedestrians. Period. If it happens, the burden of proof that you could do nothing about it is on you. Is this insan…

Do cyclists in Netherlands skip traffic lights and act like they have a chip on their shoulder? Well American ones do. If cyclists are going to share the road, they would see fit have their bicycles registered, pay yearly fees and purchase insurance - both for themselves and the ones they cause harm to [1] - just like motorists do. Anything else is just favoritism. Won't stand in a court of law, here. The next time a…

Registration and Insurance isn't a bad idea actually...

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#23
post #3

Almost every time I encounter cyclists in traffic, they context switch between vehicle and pedestrian at their convenience. If you want to be treated as a vehicle, be a vehicle. Don't block a lane between intersections and then ride the divider lines to advance ahead of cars at every intersection so they can wait and merge around you once the light turns. As a former bike commuter, I really don't understand why bikes…

> They seem far more compatible to ride sidewalks and co-travel with pedestrians. I live in Tempe, AZ near ASU - one of the "most bike friendly" cities in the US, and I can't tell you how many times I've been nearly killed by a bike at full speed weaving in and out of pedestrian traffic on the sidewalk - where it's actually illegal for them to ride. Bikes do not belong on the sidewalk unless they're moving as slow as…

While I totally understand that it must've felt menacing to nearly have been hit by a bicycle, do you _really_ think it would've killed you?

I also think that cyclists shouldn't ride at speed on the sidewalk, but even if, cyclists causing pedestrian fatalities is extremely rare. It has happened, but it's statistically insignificant when compared to cars killing pedestrians.

There is a big difference between getting hit by 90kg at 30km/h vs 1900kg at 45km/h.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#24
post #18

As a cyclist, I am more than happy to see tech that makes me more visible! Why are people up in arms!!? So stupid.

Because it shouldn't be a defence of a driver to say "Sorry mate, I didn't see you". And if that is a defence, then isn't it a form of victim blaming? And what measure would be enough to allow the cyclist to ever prove that the driver must have seen the cyclist? Surely lights would be enough, but enough London cases about cycle deaths would appear to show this isn't enough... cyclists with lights are still killed.

I don't get your argument. Just because the lack of X does not excuse behavior Y doesn't mean that the presence of X isn't advisable. For instance, if you collide your automobile into another automobile because you didn't have a rear view mirror, that obviously is not an excuse. And yet, it is still reasonable to advise (and indeed require) that automobiles have rear view mirrors.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They seem far more compatible to ride sidewalks and co-travel with pedestrians. Pedestrians and bike riders are not compatible either. I am a bike commuter as well. I live in West Germany at the moment, but I have also bike commuted to work in Australia. In general, commuting in Germany is a much safer proposition than in Australia. The German drivers seem to be more aware and tolerance to the bike commuters. The b…

> Pedestrians and bike riders are not compatible either Maybe you could explain what you're thinking of when you say this? My experience says that pedestrians and bikes are fully compatible; they commonly share sidewalks.

Bikes can go much faster than pedestrians. People can get seriously hurt when bikes run into them. Bike lanes are what's needed (and exist in many places).

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#26
At first I thought this was going to be a parody of "anti-rape-culture" campaigns (e.g., "teaching women to defend themselves from rapists is wrong, because we should be teaching men to not rape women"), but much to my surprise it seems that the author is serious.

And so I really have to wonder about his grip on logic: The whole purpose of making cyclists more visible is to prevent drivers from hitting them! Driving around Vancouver -- a city with a large (by North American standards) cycling population, I have on many occasions come across cyclists who were visible only thanks to the lights on their bicycles. Fortunately those lights were all I needed; but on one occasion I passed a cyclist whose rear light had burnt out, and thanks to his black clothing, the lack of street lights, and the overcast night, I had no idea he was in the road until I passed him -- even though I had been looking directly at him prior to passing.

How, pray tell, am I supposed to avoid hitting invisible cyclists?

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#27
This article is mostly nonsense. The way I look at it, mandatory helmet laws are protecting not only cyclists but also drivers by reducing the likelihood of a serious injury resulting from an accident.

In regards to improving bike-ability, adding more bike lanes is certainly the best way forward. Meanwhile we can encourage responsible bike use for those who share the roadways with motor vehicles. I'm frankly appalled at the general disregard to bike safety and traffic laws by NYC cyclists. A policy of early education and strict traffic law enforcement would likely alleviate a significant portion of the problem.

As a side note, the CitiBike program has done nothing but encourage terrible bike usage behavior and dangerous habits.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#28
post #3

Almost every time I encounter cyclists in traffic, they context switch between vehicle and pedestrian at their convenience. If you want to be treated as a vehicle, be a vehicle. Don't block a lane between intersections and then ride the divider lines to advance ahead of cars at every intersection so they can wait and merge around you once the light turns. As a former bike commuter, I really don't understand why bikes…

In London this is being answered through speed restrictions.

A gradual move to 20mph on all roads is being introduced: http://www.islington.gov.uk/services/parking-roads/street_im...

Some boroughs have already completed the move (i.e. the link above) and others are following.

Traffic in London rarely gets above 20mph anyway, so it barely impacts. As a driver it makes driving more relaxing and hasn't impacted travel times. As a cyclist, it's a joy to not have vehicles racing to overtake in appropriate places.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#29

I've repeated this dozens of times whenever Americans come up with lame excuses for why cycling is dangerous in the US: in the Netherlands cyclists still share the road with cars a lot of the time. The rules however are very simple: as a driver, you're not allowed to hit weaker traffic like cyclists and pedestrians. Period. If it happens, the burden of proof that you could do nothing about it is on you. Is this insan…

I'm a cyclist in the U.S., but have no problem admitting that probably 90% of the time, the cyclist is at fault. I've ridden bikes in Europe with real bike lanes—U.S. urban cycling culture is not Dutch cycling culture. There is not a culture of responsible cycling. We don't have real bike lanes. We don't stop for red lights. We don't stop for pedestrians. As a result, the U.S. also does not have many drivers or pedestrians that are sympathetic to cyclists. In general, I am ashamed of my fellow cyclists in the U.S..

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do cyclists in Netherlands skip traffic lights and act like they have a chip on their shoulder? Well American ones do. If cyclists are going to share the road, they would see fit have their bicycles registered, pay yearly fees and purchase insurance - both for themselves and the ones they cause harm to [1] - just like motorists do. Anything else is just favoritism. Won't stand in a court of law, here. The next time a…

Registration and Insurance isn't a bad idea actually...

London has over 6,000 cycles that are registered with clearly visible numbers, and with the cyclist on the bike known.

It's called the cycle hire scheme.

In this time, not a single cyclist has been tried for anything, and yet several of them have been killed by HGVs.

Registrations aren't stopping cyclist fatalities.

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