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In Defense of the Midwest

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Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#101

Post by analog31 »

L_Rahman wrote: post #21

I used to believe in the Midwest. Graduated in 2014, moved to Detroit to work for a hardware startup. Live and work downtown, and the professional experience has been phenomenal. However, the issue that's so frequently left out when discussing the palatability of the Midwest is what it's like to be an Asian American here when you've grown up in a major city on the East or West coast. And the reality is that it's real…

I live in the Midwest, but visited a colleague at another site owned by my employer, in California. She echoed your sentiment. I have to say that if there's any specific reason why I'd hesitate to enthusiastically endorse living in the Midwest, it's the racism.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#102

Post by kxo »

xxpor wrote: post #58
seany wrote: post #4

Also, gun laws aren't total shit like they are on most of the coast.

Who cares? Honestly. If that's decides where you move... I honestly feel extremely sorry for you.

Ah yes, feel sorry for someone who chooses to live where their rights are not (or are less) infringed upon.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#103

Post by pnathan »

lotharbot wrote: post #99
pnathan wrote: post #31

When I think of the Midwest these days, I think of St Louis/Ferguson. I think of the price for housing and how it reflects demand . I live in Seattle, so my viewpoint is slightly different, but, eh. I used to live in a rural place, and I don't plan to go back, for a long time, if ever. Let me pick apart this article a bit, and demonstrate how skew these high points are from things I care about. * Housing cost. That's…

* "Seattle is incredibly friendly and polite" My ten-year residence in Seattle (U District, Lake City, and Burien/Tukwila) led me to use terms like "passive-aggressive", "frigid", and "unaware". Seattle drivers are particularly terrible -- they'll force a line of 20 cars to stop just so they can "politely" let someone in who would have been able to turn just fine ten seconds later when all the cars had passed; they'r…

I'm an introvert: I have few friends, but close ones. The Scandanavian "Seattle Freeze" suits me to a T - surprisingly so! But I can easily understand how people who prefer other interaction modalities would find it aggravating.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#104

Post by joelrunyon »

analog31 wrote: post #101
L_Rahman wrote: post #21

I used to believe in the Midwest. Graduated in 2014, moved to Detroit to work for a hardware startup. Live and work downtown, and the professional experience has been phenomenal. However, the issue that's so frequently left out when discussing the palatability of the Midwest is what it's like to be an Asian American here when you've grown up in a major city on the East or West coast. And the reality is that it's real…

I live in the Midwest, but visited a colleague at another site owned by my employer, in California. She echoed your sentiment. I have to say that if there's any specific reason why I'd hesitate to enthusiastically endorse living in the Midwest, it's the racism.

> I have to say that if there's any specific reason why I'd hesitate to enthusiastically endorse living in the Midwest, it's the racism.

The midwest includes a broad swath of states. While I've encountered some racism throughout the area, I'd be hard-pressed to see how it's vastly different than any other racism that permeates US culture.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#105

Post by lstyls »

malnourish wrote: post #88
autarch wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This afternoon I just went to see a new opera that premiered yesterday at the Minnesota Opera Company (The Manchurian Candidate). I hardly feel deprived living in Minneapolis with the The Minnesota Orchestra, The Minnesota Opera, The St. Paul Chamber Orchestra, The Schubert Club, and a dozen other ensembles I'm forgetting. And that's just classical music, which is what I'm interested in. If you're into live theater t…

Minneapolis also has an incredible local music scene (greatly bolstered by The Current[0] and Radio K[1]). If it weren't for the weather, Minneapolis would be a lot higher on city "tier" lists. [0] http://www.thecurrent.org/ [1] http://www.radiok.org/

I'm from the Minnesota. I lived in Minneapolis from age 18 to very recently. I played in bands, my friends played it bands, etc. But let me tell you, after 10 years in that town you realize it really is very small.

@msutherl is completely right. If you have any creative bent outside of pop culture even a town the size of Minneapolis does not really provide the kind of creative stimulation you need. The kind of diversity and culture mixing that comes from a metropolis like NYC is on a whole other level entirely.

(By the way, the current is a crap radio station and they haven't played anything other than indie top 40 for years. Radio-K is cool, but every town with a university has a college radio station )

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#106

Post by mturmon »

godarderik wrote: post #39

This article is particularly relevant to me. I’m originally from a suburb of Cleveland less than half an hour from where the OP works, and I’m currently an undergraduate at Harvard. There are definitely some differences between the areas, and I can’t say that I have the overwhelmingly positive vision of the Midwest that the author of this post has. My feeling is that people in the Midwest are more content with the st…

This rings true. I grew up in a suburb of Kansas City and, looking back, see it as a safe friendly place to grow up.

At uni, I was friends with a group of expat Manhattanites (not wealthy though) and similar to what you say, they looked at St. Louis as a quaint toy city. Many inconclusive dorm debates were held on the merits of the two environments. Of course neither of us could give ground, so similar to what you read nearby, we were talking past each other. Too defensive.

But that was 20 years and several cities ago. I still visit the Midwest and enjoy family and a few friends. I experience it as not open to newness, to difference, or to the exceptional. These things are just not valued. It is valued to be a regular person and to be comfortable and respectable.

This won't work for me. I love LA, where I live now, and have great respect for the Bay Area as well.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#107

Post by pacmon »

L_Rahman wrote: post #21

I used to believe in the Midwest. Graduated in 2014, moved to Detroit to work for a hardware startup. Live and work downtown, and the professional experience has been phenomenal. However, the issue that's so frequently left out when discussing the palatability of the Midwest is what it's like to be an Asian American here when you've grown up in a major city on the East or West coast. And the reality is that it's real…

I happen to live in the (Northern) Midwest and I think you're just not in the right area. My city is ethnically and culturally diverse and I never encounter open racism. There are some of the more rural areas where that might be present. However, without statistics to back up any density of racism that may or may not be present it's hard to say whether race might be more of a factor here than anywhere else in the US.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#108

Post by lstyls »

joelrunyon wrote: post #104
analog31 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the Midwest, but visited a colleague at another site owned by my employer, in California. She echoed your sentiment. I have to say that if there's any specific reason why I'd hesitate to enthusiastically endorse living in the Midwest, it's the racism.

> I have to say that if there's any specific reason why I'd hesitate to enthusiastically endorse living in the Midwest, it's the racism. The midwest includes a broad swath of states. While I've encountered some racism throughout the area, I'd be hard-pressed to see how it's vastly different than any other racism that permeates US culture.

True, the midwest as a region is broad and well-defined. But I'm guessing what the poster referred to us the midwest north of the mason-dixon line.

The upper midwest has its own breed of racism. It is quiet but built in to the socio-economic fabric of cities there in a way even worse than the south in many ways.

I'd like to point out that midwestern cities are among the most segragated in the U.S.[1] Minnesota, the place where I grew up, is famous for having one of the best public school systems in the country. What you won't hear Minnesotans talking about, though, it the ugly fact that Minnesota has the highest discrepancy in educational outcomes of any city in the country.

If you're from there, its easy to see why. There are exclusive suburbs with incredible schools for the local upper-class kids. But if you go to the inner city the schools are a joke. The difference is shocking in person.

The worst part is, there is not even a conversation in the upper midwest about race. The dominant narrative is that its a southern problem.

[1] http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/03/24/10-of-the-most-segreg...

Extra reading: http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2015/02/minnesota_has_the...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/02/17/if...

*Edited for completeness

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#109

Post by msutherl »

nostromo wrote: post #90
msutherl wrote: post #24

(1) Cleveland gets all the Broadway shows once they go off Broadway, but at about half the cost, (2) We have great music here, including the world-renowned Cleveland Jazz Orchestra, and tons of bands come through, (3) We have some great sports teams (hi, OSU) and a ton of great sports fans (hi, Browns fans), (4) We have great food at very affordable prices Yes, exactly. As someone who lives in New York, this is the v…

New York does have a great arts scene; but unless you're an artist, it'll always be peripheral to your day to day life. Day to day life in New York is dreary. By American standards it's a filthy city. It smells and will always smell because trash is collected on the sidewalk. It manages to be both too hot and too cold. On summer days, a blanket of pollution hangs in the city air. The waterways are toxic after rainfal…

> New York does have a great arts scene; but unless you're an artist, it'll always be peripheral to your day to day life.

This just isn't true. I know a number of people who work full-time in tech and are deeply integrated into various New York art scenes.

re: New York's awful quality of life compared to other cities, I completely agree. I can't blame anyone for wanting to live in a beautiful place with good weather and a more relaxed pace of life.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#110

Post by rdtsc »

jobposter1234 wrote: post #45
tracker1 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth mentioning that there are plenty of technology positions that aren't for a technology giant... For example in the Phoenix area we have Paypal, Wells Fargo, American Express, GoDaddy, Intel, Motorolla and a number of other very large companies. Many large companies have a presence in multiple cities, not just the tech hubs, and there and many teams have to operate effectively remote (from other members) any…

I'm confused on the point you are making. Companies that hire programmers live everywhere. Given the disparate perception of a person working at Paypal, etc., compared to a Bay Area startup, even given the difference in purchasing power... Might'n't (?) we conclude that people choose the Bay Area for other reasons than salary and hiring? Why is the default to believe people in the B.A. are irrational? I say this as s…

> Companies that hire programmers live everywhere.

They don't though, that's the thing. Some towns don't have that many programming jobs. If you are already in a tech hub it seems just apply to 10 companies and you'd get 3 offers in 2 weeks time is not unusual.

Another thing happens is the programmers already there are standing in line applying for the fews jobs available. And sometimes requirements and salaries become too low.

Not all programmers are young college grads wanting to work for cool startups. There are lot of them with homes, families, kids, aging parents, a larger social network etc.

> Might'n't (?) we conclude that people choose the Bay Area for other reasons than salary and hiring?

It depends. I, for example, started looking around the area where I was living already for a job. Didn't find anything there so after that applied to companies all over the country. I had offers in completely different parts of the county and just picked one. Availability of other future jobs was an important factor. But I didn't have 10 placest to pick from. It was just a few. If all were in BA I would have been in BA. If they were in Montana, I would have been in Montana probably. In other words, I didn't first pick the geographic area then applied to work there, I applied to companies, and then ended up in a geographic area.

I imagine if you are exceptionally good, it doesn't matter. Could probably throw a dart at the map, and then find a job there.

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