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In Defense of the Midwest

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Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#91

Post by kevan »

shyy wrote: post #82
re_todd wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm tempted to move to a cheaper city inland, but I've heard horror stories of people trying to get to work when it snows. Is it extremely difficult to get to work in the winter?

No, not at all. Every once in a while there’s an extremely bad storm that makes it difficult, but for the most part the infrastructure (plows, salt trucks, etc.) has adapted to the climate such that it’s not a problem 97% of the time.

Minnesotan here, everyone in my office takes their laptops home if we think it'll snow. If it snows during the commute then things slow down, but there's armies of plow trucks and things get cleared quickly.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#92

Post by [deleted] »

[deleted] wrote: post #85
joelrunyon wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If a guy has not lived round the world before deciding Ohio is the best place to live, then it's not a very convincing argument. I would venture to guess that you haven't been to Ohio. I'm not claiming that it's an epicenter of amazingness, but I can count at least one person that's decided that's the case (Dave Chappelle).

[deleted]

[deleted]

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#94

Post by scrapcode »

I grew up in Kentucky, and have lived in many other states in the east and southeast. I've also lived in Washington and LA. There are some things that I really miss about LA, such as the constant activity and drive, but those are also the things that I found I could never acclimate to living with (the traffic, the constant hustle).

I live in Kansas City now and am hoping to see big things start to happen more often in the technical start-up world. The city is embracing start-up culture it seems and it's just so damn cheap that I believe it to be inevitable.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#95

Post by noobermin »

The "best" university I could get into was my last choice, a certain, large public uni in Ohio, and I was upset but I chose it anyway.

However, Columbus is freaking awesome, I was so happy I decided to come here just because of the place and the friendly people (in fact, I have met one or two people who frequent this very site there!), not to mention the variety of great food and great coffee!

I have since starting planning leaving uni, but I probably want to stay in Columbus, if possible. How ironic, isn't it?

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#96

Post by nether »

Retric wrote: post #48
msutherl wrote: post #24

(1) Cleveland gets all the Broadway shows once they go off Broadway, but at about half the cost, (2) We have great music here, including the world-renowned Cleveland Jazz Orchestra, and tons of bands come through, (3) We have some great sports teams (hi, OSU) and a ton of great sports fans (hi, Browns fans), (4) We have great food at very affordable prices Yes, exactly. As someone who lives in New York, this is the v…

NY produces a lot of art / culture, but as with most things more than 90% of it is crap. If you don't feel like shifting through it then living in NY is pointless.

Or maybe you just don't care for modern city culture. I find a long walk in the woods more enriching than a world class art museum, though the latter has better bragging rights.

Seriously, humans lived in societies for thousands of years without the billion forms of stimulation that we have today. I refuse to believe their lives were in any way deprived because of this. The demand for an urban lifestyle is completely artificial and only serves to create a steady supply of desperate workers filled with envy of movie star lives. Humans in primitive societies today still manage to live happy lives. What would aid us all is to realize our desires are not our own but implanted by marketing to benefit the power elite.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#97

Post by freyr »

xxpor wrote: post #63
forrestthewoods wrote: post #46

You don't need to defend the midwest. Most people outside of San Francisco couldn't give less of a shit about San Francisco. The three primary smells of SF are urine, human feces, and weed. I think Seattle folk are becoming increasingly hostile to the idea of moving down there. Some dream of it of course, but I think they're decreasing in number. Google and Facebook are expanding up here because there's so much talen…

>Google and Facebook are expanding up here because there's so much talent that simply won't move to the bay I think a lot of that is driven by Amazon, because they built the downtown offices. People get used to working downtown and they want to stay there. Easy commutes from Capitol Hill/QA/etc. Now Facebook is expanding downtown, Google Fremont is growing, etc. because people refuse to commute to the east side. As o…

> and would move back to Cleveland in a heartbeat, if the salaries and opportunities were even remotely comparable to Seattle.

At some point you might decide you don't need to jump from company to company, or from job to job. You'll realize you really only need a good job at a decent company. And there's a good chance that such a job exists in Cleveland, or Dallas, or Charlotte, or wherever.

At times, you might feel like you're missing out on the action. But then you'll look at your bank account or your house or your kid's college fund, which hasn't been being sucked dry by a ridiculously inflated cost-of-living, and you'll come back to your senses.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#98

Post by kxo »

eanplatter wrote: post #42
rdtsc wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonder if more acceptance of remote work will change this. Image a thousand or ten thousand remote engineers, getting Google salaries. That is a lot of income, a lot taxes, a lot of spending power. There are smaller cities that are called one-company towns. One university, one army base, one large manufacturing plant. That is the largest and most prominent employer in the region. If that one thing goes away, the town…

The trouble comes when companies pay remote employees less if their cost of living is lower, or when they move to another place so they can pay people less. HP did that when they moved to Boise, ID.

In most cases, companies aren't actually able to adjust point-for-point for CoL.. it just isn't possible in any market with local opportunity. If remote markets ever see dramatic expansion/acceptance, CoL won't even be a mentionable factor.

CoL might be N-300% higher in SF but salaries (thank wage-fixing companies) are not. Salaries are (necessarily higher) but it's easy to dwarf the spread in normal, requisite expenditures.

CA has a high state income tax, relatively higher sales tax (than most midwest areas), and in the case of SF, the oh-so-obvious (self-inflicted) real estate problem.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#99

Post by lotharbot »

pnathan wrote: post #31

When I think of the Midwest these days, I think of St Louis/Ferguson. I think of the price for housing and how it reflects demand . I live in Seattle, so my viewpoint is slightly different, but, eh. I used to live in a rural place, and I don't plan to go back, for a long time, if ever. Let me pick apart this article a bit, and demonstrate how skew these high points are from things I care about. * Housing cost. That's…

* "Seattle is incredibly friendly and polite"

My ten-year residence in Seattle (U District, Lake City, and Burien/Tukwila) led me to use terms like "passive-aggressive", "frigid", and "unaware".

Seattle drivers are particularly terrible -- they'll force a line of 20 cars to stop just so they can "politely" let someone in who would have been able to turn just fine ten seconds later when all the cars had passed; they're perfectly willing to inconvenience multiple other people in order to be superficially polite to one. If there's a space in front of them, they'll speed up, getting right on the bumper of the car in front of them -- even if there's plenty of room to pass -- and then follow closely, as if they just can't stand being more than a few yards behind the next car. (This particular passive-aggressive maneuver is so distinctive that I once identified a vehicle on the interstate in Kansas as "drives like they're from Seattle" from a distance, confirming from the licence plate when I got closer.)

I also noticed that everyone in Seattle was polite to my face, but the majority of long-term friends I made while in Seattle were from other places. The people who turned out to be fake friends were mostly the natives.

That's not to say that Seattle entirely sucks. It was a neat place to live, and there are a lot of good people there. But I find it interesting how differently we perceive the same social scene, and how that contributes to my being much happier far away from there.

Re: In Defense of the Midwest

#100

Post by kxo »

kevan wrote: post #86
zippergz wrote: post #70

The problem I have with the cost of living argument is that, while housing tends to be cheaper, an iPad or a new car is not. That lower salary hurts everywhere except in mortgage or rent. And I say this as someone who has never lived in the Bay Area and hopefully never will.

True, but mortgage or rent is one of the largest items in most people's budgets. A new software engineer in Minneapolis can comfortably buy a house and start building equity. A new software engineer in the bay area probably can't even with the >40% salary difference.

Don't forget the close-to-10% state income tax (at engineer income), higher sales tax, CA SDI, higher food/utility costs, higher insurance, etc.

If you're lucky enough to work in a state with no (or low/fixed) income tax, that 10% combined with the hilarious housing cost situation covers the spread in salary difference very quickly.

And if you're working remotely there are obviously other potential lifestyle savings to be had (parking, generally less restaurant expenses, etc.)

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