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The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan
101–110 of 302 posts
Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's fair, but then he shouldn't have been surprised when his site started hemorrhaging users who were there entirely for the freedom of speech they enjoyed. 8chan will probably last much longer than 4chan precisely because Fredrick refuses to make those judgement calls about what is and isn't acceptable. He doesn't need to bear a heavy conscience about what kind of speech he is allowing, he just follows the law to…
That is, to be blunt, bullshit. Frederick doesn't let them do their thing; he actively enables it. That's significantly different. Comparisons to Hitchens are similarly misleading; there is a large difference between enabling vs not stopping. While I support eg the KKK or gamergate jerks' right to talk and organize, I'm damn well not helping pay for it.
A guy that has been using 4chan and other anonymous messageboards since he was 12 acts and thinks like a 4chan user. What a shock.
I know it's not the same to you, but if you look at the top 15 boards on 8chan, that list includes a board that Fredrick likely has no interest in (gay porn), boards full of users that he probably disagrees strongly with (/leftypol/, a left wing version of /pol/, and /christian/, iirc he is an athiest), and a community full of people that he personally cannot stand (/furry/). Maybe you wouldn't pay to provide a home for "gamergate jerks", but he doesn't seem to have a problem providing a home for a lot of people he dislikes or disagrees with.
What is the difference between "enabling" and "not stopping" something? Is he "enabling" GamerGate because he supports it on his personal twitter account, or is he "enabling" it just for refusing to censor it on his site? Is he "enabling" /baphomet/ because he made some improvements to the site software that happened to fix a spam/flooding problem they had? Then is he not also "enabling" the /furry/ board that he developed a CAPTCHA option specifically for, due to the constant attacks of one dedicated spammer that board received? Or does "enabling" just mean "allowing something I dislike"?
Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
8chan can't be mentioned because it's a competitor I assume? But what about Gamergate, why is it taboo to discuss it?
From what I could tell it quickly turned to a misogynist witch hunt with heavy doxxing and harassment and not a lot of actual substance
No that's how it started. Get the story right, people!
Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan
#104The problem I see with his retiring is one I've experienced on reddit as a moderator. When someone higher than you "retires" or goes otherwise inactive, yet still retains the power they hold, they inevitably come back. It's guaranteed. Even if it's only for a day. That doesn't sound like a problem at first, but it's a HUGE problem. Why? Because new policies, rules or ways of handling things get enacted or evolve and…
moot has always been pretty hands-off when it comes to managing the site; the current list of rules has been more or less the same for the entirety of the existence of 4chan. Some more board-specific issues arise from time to time and they tend to be resolved as they come up. They're almost always addressed by appealing to the existing set of rules or by making changes to the board technology itself; e.g. changing how post numbers are calculated so people aren't overly obsessed with "doubles"[1].
But admins and powerful mods have always been able to fuck with the boards in ways normal users can't, such as embedding auto-playing youtube links in posts or having fun with formatting. They've used this power sparingly in recent years and, despite what certain posters want everybody to believe, it hasn't caused any major controversies. I doubt very much moot is going to have a burning desire to come back and embed a stupid video in a board.
[1] Doubles are post numbers ending in repeating digits like "593987144." People's obsession with "dubs" on the random board /b/ have been met with several solutions, such as hiding the last three number from posters (593987XXX) or altering the generation code to skip doubles entirely (593987143 is followed directly by 593987145)
Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that actual calls to swat people have been deleted on that board. But, I can't say for sure because I don't hang out there, and the events of GamerGate have me applying a shakerfull of salt to any negative press surrounding 8chan. And as far as "incorrect", that is your opinion and it is your own, I have a differing one. I like the idea of a site where the admin has assured tha…
I'm not asking why you think freedom of speech is a guiding principle and a human right. I get that and I agree that freedom of speech is incredibly important. I have spent a lot of mental time over the last few years thinking about that belief in relationship to my feeling that it's bad to cause pain. This is not a simple problem. However, it's also irrelevant to my question: why do you think that the admin of 8chan…
>I have spent a lot of mental time over the last few years thinking about that belief in relationship to my feeling
You're doing it wrong.
Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's fair, but then he shouldn't have been surprised when his site started hemorrhaging users who were there entirely for the freedom of speech they enjoyed. 8chan will probably last much longer than 4chan precisely because Fredrick refuses to make those judgement calls about what is and isn't acceptable. He doesn't need to bear a heavy conscience about what kind of speech he is allowing, he just follows the law to…
Ever heard the phrase "my right to extend my arm stops at your nose"? Online harassment and freedom of speech are similarly related. It may be a slippery slope, but it's an important one to navigate. Throwing your hands up and saying "well all these horrible manchildren would just organize somewhere else to harass people, so I might as well let them do it here!" isn't bravery, it's opportunism. As far as 8chan outlas…
> Ever heard the phrase "my right to extend my arm stops at your nose"?
Great idea. Easy to misapply, because with speech people are very bad at knowing where their nose actually is. Having hurt feelings from something someone said? Not being hit in the nose, but I know plenty of people disagree.
Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ever heard the phrase "my right to extend my arm stops at your nose"? Online harassment and freedom of speech are similarly related. It may be a slippery slope, but it's an important one to navigate. Throwing your hands up and saying "well all these horrible manchildren would just organize somewhere else to harass people, so I might as well let them do it here!" isn't bravery, it's opportunism. As far as 8chan outlas…
> Ever heard the phrase "my right to extend my arm stops at your nose"? Great idea. Easy to misapply, because with speech people are very bad at knowing where their nose actually is. Having hurt feelings from something someone said? Not being hit in the nose, but I know plenty of people disagree.
Let's be real here, SWAT teams showing up at your house is far different than 'having hurt feelings from something someone said.'
Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that actual calls to swat people have been deleted on that board. But, I can't say for sure because I don't hang out there, and the events of GamerGate have me applying a shakerfull of salt to any negative press surrounding 8chan. And as far as "incorrect", that is your opinion and it is your own, I have a differing one. I like the idea of a site where the admin has assured tha…
I'm not asking why you think freedom of speech is a guiding principle and a human right. I get that and I agree that freedom of speech is incredibly important. I have spent a lot of mental time over the last few years thinking about that belief in relationship to my feeling that it's bad to cause pain. This is not a simple problem. However, it's also irrelevant to my question: why do you think that the admin of 8chan…
> I have spent a lot of mental time over the last few years thinking about that belief in relationship to my feeling that it's bad to cause pain.
I submit that the two are not in conflict. The first is a principle that all people should have this right. The second is moral guidance on the subjective application of that right.
People can use their rights for good or for ill. The key thing is that people have that right. It's not a right if someone else's subjective moral judgments can take it away.
> This is not a simple problem.
That depends. Why do you think there is complexity? At a guess, you think others should live by your principles, and so you are conflicted when they do not.
Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Ever heard the phrase "my right to extend my arm stops at your nose"? Great idea. Easy to misapply, because with speech people are very bad at knowing where their nose actually is. Having hurt feelings from something someone said? Not being hit in the nose, but I know plenty of people disagree.
Let's be real here, SWAT teams showing up at your house is far different than 'having hurt feelings from something someone said.'
I agree, the two are very different. However, a number of people consider their own negative emotions to be a good reason to restrict the speech of others.
There's a reason that flag-burning hit the SCOTUS.
Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think GG and 8chan are the least of 4chan's problems if they were trying to sell. Constant loli, gore, and racist threads would be a far bigger turn off to a potential buyer. GG and 8chan threads were just banned because of his personal beliefs.
or the constant posting of child porn
Constant loli covers that I presume?