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The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

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Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#51

Post by na85 »

oafitupa wrote: post #44
na85 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's basically Reddit, but for image boards I think reddit has shown us quite conclusively that the "create-your-own-niche" paradigm simply leads to a series of over-specialized echo chambers with perpetually rising levels of groupthink and self-reinforcing, self-congratulatory posting. In other words I think reddit's architecture amplifies shitposting rather than mitigating it.

How dare people share content with other like-minded people!

You missed the point by an impressive margin.

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#52

Post by Koahku »

krelian wrote: post #41
pervycreeper wrote: post #24

This is not a surprising development, there has been speculation that Poole has been readying the site for sale in the past few months. He has taken action to sanitize the site by suppressing discussion of Gamergate and 8chan (mention of either was a bannable offense), and more recently a purge of /pol/ (that board had been a haven for conspiracy theorists and neo-nazis). The theory had been that he was making the bo…

8chan can't be mentioned because it's a competitor I assume? But what about Gamergate, why is it taboo to discuss it?

Because GamerGate was brewing to become the new chanology, which would have been a disaster for the whole website.

As for 8chan I guess it's because its address was being spammed constantly on every board and it's also considered advertising.

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#53

Post by zorpner »

sroerick wrote: post #49
zorpner wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea of a site where the admin has assured that they will not interfere with you unless they have to. If an admin chooses not to interfere, that does not absolve them from the responsibility of what happens on their site. If they had the power to remove it, and did not, they share in the blame for the consequences.

That's absurd. Are phone companies liable when criminals use their products to talk on the phone? Are the developers of encryption liable for ISIS encrypting their calls? Call me when CNN and Fox News get sued for lying, and when Sony gets prosecuted for starting trivial lawsuits to stifle free speech. Then we can talk about censoring internet forums.

First off, I'm talking about culpability, not liability. Conflating morality and legality (not to mention censorship and providing a platform) makes your entire post nonsensical.

And in the context of culpability, it's obvious that such a relationship only exists when the individual with the power to prevent bad action is aware of the action. So in this case, where Hotwheels is not only a participant in the relevant boards on 8chan but has expressed approval of what's happening, it's easy to hold him culpable (and probably liable as well, for what it's worth).

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#54

Post by mahranch »

The problem I see with his retiring is one I've experienced on reddit as a moderator.

When someone higher than you "retires" or goes otherwise inactive, yet still retains the power they hold, they inevitably come back. It's guaranteed. Even if it's only for a day. That doesn't sound like a problem at first, but it's a HUGE problem. Why?

Because new policies, rules or ways of handling things get enacted or evolve and those new things don't make sense to them. They haven't been involved with the day to day issues are not familiar with the new challenges the community has been facing. They forget that in community driven sites, the problems are dynamic and evolving. They think the community is exactly the same as when they retired. Only, it's not.

So when they come back they do away with the rules or new policies because "they don't make sense" or they're not needed. It sets the community back, or even destroying the new community all together. Some of the volunteers below them may get frustrated and/or quit because they just witnessed all their hard work get wiped out. Getting undermined by an out-of-touch owner/mod doesn't help the morale for the remaining volunteers.

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#56

Post by ihuman »

sroerick wrote: post #46
krelian wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8chan can't be mentioned because it's a competitor I assume? But what about Gamergate, why is it taboo to discuss it?

Discussion of Gamergate has been taken down in some form from every major communications platform other than (to my limited knowledge) 8chan and twitter. Facebook, Reddit, YouTube and 4chan have all removed content related to GamerGate

As far as I know, only /r/Games (the main gaming discussion subreddit) bans Gamergate. Reddit itself does not ban it.

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#57

Post by gmu3 »

billmalarky wrote: post #50

I realize Chris is tired of dealing with the headaches of managing 4chan. But if he has effectively outsourced management of the site, why not continue to hold the title of president or whatever? I wonder how much of his cachet he gives up by doing this (even though he still owns the property). Given his influence on the internet due to 4chan, moot can probably raise money for his next project with relative ease. Can…

moot is never capitalized. I guess we'll see but I mainly read it as he was stepping down as an administrator.

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#58

Post by BryantD »

Karunamon wrote: post #23
BryantD wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Er, /baphomet is not "a doxxing board." Or, rather, it's not just a doxxing board. It's also a swatting board, and swatting is illegal in the US. https://storify.com/a_man_in_black/baphomet You are also 100% incorrect about "only legitimate stance." Hotwheels needs to be clear about what his guidelines are; as long as it's clear what rules the communities operate under, and as long as people are free to decide whethe…

I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that actual calls to swat people have been deleted on that board. But, I can't say for sure because I don't hang out there, and the events of GamerGate have me applying a shakerfull of salt to any negative press surrounding 8chan. And as far as "incorrect", that is your opinion and it is your own, I have a differing one. I like the idea of a site where the admin has assured tha…

I'm not asking why you think freedom of speech is a guiding principle and a human right. I get that and I agree that freedom of speech is incredibly important. I have spent a lot of mental time over the last few years thinking about that belief in relationship to my feeling that it's bad to cause pain.

This is not a simple problem.

However, it's also irrelevant to my question: why do you think that the admin of 8chan has a different moral obligation vis a vis free speech than the admin of Hacker News? You said that allowing people to set up their own communities was important, and I sincerely don't know why that makes a difference here.

It's OK with me if you misspoke, and you think that Hacker News should operate under the same principles as 8chan.

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#59

Post by hatu »

krelian wrote: post #41
pervycreeper wrote: post #24

This is not a surprising development, there has been speculation that Poole has been readying the site for sale in the past few months. He has taken action to sanitize the site by suppressing discussion of Gamergate and 8chan (mention of either was a bannable offense), and more recently a purge of /pol/ (that board had been a haven for conspiracy theorists and neo-nazis). The theory had been that he was making the bo…

8chan can't be mentioned because it's a competitor I assume? But what about Gamergate, why is it taboo to discuss it?

From what I could tell it quickly turned to a misogynist witch hunt with heavy doxxing and harassment and not a lot of actual substance

Re: The Next Chapter – moot retires from 4chan

#60

Post by na85 »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #45
na85 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's basically Reddit, but for image boards I think reddit has shown us quite conclusively that the "create-your-own-niche" paradigm simply leads to a series of over-specialized echo chambers with perpetually rising levels of groupthink and self-reinforcing, self-congratulatory posting. In other words I think reddit's architecture amplifies shitposting rather than mitigating it.

I don't think Reddit's shown us anything of the sort, really. I expect people have a habit of reading too much into this kind of thing.

Look, when everyone gets to be king of their own sandcastle, you obviously end up with a larger number of smaller castles. But the not-so-obvious consequence is that because people implicitly know they can just start making their own sand castle, it foments divisiveness because all of a sudden everyone "knows" they can do a better job moderating/curating/whatever, and they're sick of seeing $content_type in what they've come to see as their personal newsfeed.

IMHO the "benevolent dictator" style works better. People on 4chan complain, sure, largely as a consequence of no upvotes and complete anonymity from other users. But they also mostly just "make it work" when it comes to classifying content. On the tech board /g/, there's a surprisingly diverse stream of content that makes its way through. Because there's only one /g/ it all fits into one melting pot and the community is more vibrant and diverse as a result.

I think the same happens here on HN. A lot of different people with different tastes frequent this site. If it was simply "news for startup founders" or "javascript framework news" it would be a lot less interesting.

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