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Attack Is Suspected as North Korean Internet Collapses

nytimes.com

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Re: Attack Is Suspected as North Korean Internet Collapses

#101

Post by knd775 »

cubano wrote: post #32
free2rhyme214 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you don't understand how powerful the US military really is. We take down governments in our sleep and replace them with our own puppets.

We take down governments in our sleep and replace them with our own puppets. Except for the fact that the Chinese protect that particular government, and that makes thing a lot stickier.

China is publicly backing away from North Korea. They have said that they will not come to NK's aid if they do something stupid and get attacked.

Re: Attack Is Suspected as North Korean Internet Collapses

#103

Post by crazypyro »

downandout wrote: post #7

I suspect this to be the work of the US government, but out of curiosity I wonder if there would be any legal consequences were Sony or another private party to launch a DDOS attack on North Korea from the US. Obviously no one would be extradited to NK, but I'm curious if that would run afoul of US law. If not, it might be fun to create some software or a mobile app that would keep this going indefinitely. I imagine…

This is illegal. Under the CFAA, any unauthorized access of any "protected" system anywhere (that causes at least $5,000 in damages, but hell, anything over a 1-2 man business can have $5,000 in damages, in legal terms, in a few seconds) is a felony.

Protected system: "including a computer located outside the United States that is used in a manner that affects interstate or foreign commerce or communication of the United States"

I think taking down NK internet would be considered affecting foreign commerce/communication.

Re: Attack Is Suspected as North Korean Internet Collapses

#104

Post by rgbrenner »

downandout wrote: post #7

I suspect this to be the work of the US government, but out of curiosity I wonder if there would be any legal consequences were Sony or another private party to launch a DDOS attack on North Korea from the US. Obviously no one would be extradited to NK, but I'm curious if that would run afoul of US law. If not, it might be fun to create some software or a mobile app that would keep this going indefinitely. I imagine…

IANAL.. but the US laws on cybercrime aren't limited to attacks within US borders. For example, the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act says "such trafficking affects interstate or foreign commerce".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act

here's a list of us cybercrime laws: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_cybercrime#U.S.

Re: Attack Is Suspected as North Korean Internet Collapses

#105

Post by jgwest »

Maybe it's the doing of the U.S. gov't... maybe not...

But in any case, what's the point of keeping the U.S. government's action or non-action secret?

As the linked piece states:

"If the attack was American in origin — something the United States would probably never acknowledge ..."

It's sort of like the Doomsday Machine in Dr. Strangelove: it just doesn't work as a deterrent if you keep it a secret.

Or is all this secret "cyberwarfare" capability that the U.S. government is secretly building only going to be used in secret?

Re: Attack Is Suspected as North Korean Internet Collapses

#107

Post by Crito »

jusben1369 wrote: post #92
vlunkr wrote: post #85

Is it weird to anyone else that all this "cyber warfare" is happening over the release of a movie. A comedy movie, not a documentary or propaganda film. I don't know if media has every had such an inadvertent impact on politics before. I would say it's a strange age we live in, but I think this strangeness is all from North Korea.

Well to be clear to the North Koreans this is 100% a propaganda movie.

There seems that people living under regimes with limited freedom often fail to comprehend that people living in other countries might produce something without the explicit approval of their government.

To the North Koreans, it is beyond comprehension that people living in the US made something, rather than the US government making it. To them, if Americans made it, that means America made it.

This misunderstanding isn't limited to works coming out of the US of course. Another example of this failure to comprehend freedom of expression is the aftermath of the Muhammad cartoons published by some Danish newspapers. Enraged extremists around the world began rioting in front of Danish Embassies, as though the cartoons were drawn, commissioned, or even approved by the Danish government.

See also: The souring of Chinese-Norwegian relations after the Norwegian Nobel Committee (which is a private organization which awards a private prize, despite having some members selected by Norwegian parliament) awarded the 2010 Nobel Peace Prize to Liu Xiaobo.

Re: Attack Is Suspected as North Korean Internet Collapses

#108

Post by unclebucknasty »

crazypyro wrote: post #103
downandout wrote: post #7

I suspect this to be the work of the US government, but out of curiosity I wonder if there would be any legal consequences were Sony or another private party to launch a DDOS attack on North Korea from the US. Obviously no one would be extradited to NK, but I'm curious if that would run afoul of US law. If not, it might be fun to create some software or a mobile app that would keep this going indefinitely. I imagine…

This is illegal. Under the CFAA, any unauthorized access of any "protected" system anywhere (that causes at least $5,000 in damages, but hell, anything over a 1-2 man business can have $5,000 in damages, in legal terms, in a few seconds) is a felony. Protected system: "including a computer located outside the United States that is used in a manner that affects interstate or foreign commerce or communication of the Un…

But, I wonder, if a case could be made for such an attack being a defensive maneuver on the part of the USG? That is, due to the claimed recent activity by NK and future threats articulated by NK to engage in cyber warfare, might taking their access offline be construed as a defensive measure?

If so, would there be anything under the U.S. Code or otherwise that would supersede the CFAA; or are there exclusions in the CFAA itself?

Re: Attack Is Suspected as North Korean Internet Collapses

#109

Post by [deleted] »

digikata wrote: post #53
eyeareque wrote: post #13

The public /22 (1024 IPs) that is used by North Korea is widely known now, so it is bad form to assume the US is behind this attack. Heck, a 14 year old with a few bots could take down their whole country. This outage won't hurt North Korea. At best it makes for a good head line to see the whole country offline. At worst this means that their elite citizens cannot access social networks or email outside of their coun…

Or this could be some kind of reverse false flag operation (a soccer flop?) to give NK a platform to escalate some other negotiation point...

[deleted]

Re: Attack Is Suspected as North Korean Internet Collapses

#110

Post by unclebucknasty »

jqm wrote: post #97
nether wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Al Qaeda also initially denied responsibility for 9/11. It doesn't really mean anything.

Good point. And to the same point, neither do accusations anymore.... I think there is a lot going on and we don't know anything about it. I'm not sure if this for national security reasons or because we would be outraged beyond belief....

>I think there is a lot going on and we don't know anything about it.

You said it. You know, NK claims that the movie was USG propaganda. And, to the average American ear, that notion probably sounds completely nuts on its face.

But, then, there's this that we learned just a couple of weeks ago:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/12/11/why-usaid-got-into-bed-w...

Not only do we not know everything that goes on, but it's becoming increasingly difficult to separate ridiculousness from truth.

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