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“I’m in the US – what if I just ignore the EU VAT changes?”

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Re: “I’m in the US – what if I just ignore the EU VAT changes?”

#101

Post by pc86 »

_delirium wrote: post #78
pc86 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A hospital can charge you for anything and you're legally obligated to pay it. Categorically, unequivocally wrong. Hospitals cannot just make up charges. They cannot bill you for procedures/tests/services you did not receive (and if they do, you are not "legally obligated to pay it"). I know the anti-US healthcare circle jerk is pretty strong here, but we don't need to just make things up in order to prove a point.

It's true that they can't just make up services, but they can do a pretty wide range of things and bill you for them, without giving you the price in advance. My dad was in the hospital once, and got something like 20 separate bills, for different services he had no idea he had received (and had no way to verify if he had even received). And my mom actually did get a half-dozen or so bills for services she definitely…

Honestly I'd be shocked if an ER doctor knew the price of a service before doing. They probably know a general range (give or take a few hundred dollars?) for a given test, but even that I'm mostly guessing on.

Unless they're a small operation, I don't know that they'd have any direct visibility into the billing/insurance/finance side of the operation. Maybe that is the issue? I don't know how to combat that in a large hospital setting.

The one time I had surgery I ended up getting 3 separate bills for varying amounts, but any time I asked for documentation about a given procedure or test it was provided in writing well before the due date of the bill.

Re: “I’m in the US – what if I just ignore the EU VAT changes?”

#102

Post by Jongseong »

lotsofmangos wrote: post #75

" If you ask me – YES it is crazy. There are 28 member states and over 75 different VAT rates – which I should all know and create different invoices for. " If only we had some sort of programmable calculating device to automate this kind of drudgery.

The seller is also supposed to collect evidence of the location of the purchaser (billing addresses, IP addresses, etc.). By the time you're required to collect private data for each transaction, it becomes more than simply the kind of drudgery you can automate away and becomes a burden that is a bit too much for one-person entreprises.

Re: “I’m in the US – what if I just ignore the EU VAT changes?”

#103

Post by Omniusaspirer »

Major_Grooves wrote: post #43

Yes, this has been quite an amazing f-up by the tax authorities in the EU. I wrote a blogpost about it the other day: http://blog.satago.co.uk/2014/11/what-is-this-vatmoss-mess/ imo the major f-up is removing the tax threshold for selling digital goods - even if you sell a £1 kintting pattern you have to register for VAT now.

This is effectively impossible to enforce though, at least for foreign sellers; is that a fair assessment? I'm really not seeing any mechanism whereby the EU could actually force them to pay their taxes when they're selling goods that don't physically exist. Small arts and crafts need to be shipped, software does not.

I guess they could pressure payment services (Paypal, Dwolla), but Bitcoin could always be used as a fallback- it's also VAT exempt or at least appears to be from my quick searches on the subject.

Re: “I’m in the US – what if I just ignore the EU VAT changes?”

#104

Post by laurencerowe »

bad_user wrote: post #26
tormeh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really how it works. Tax rate and tax evasion aren't really linked. It's about culture and enforcement. Anyway, if your business can't pay tax it should close and you should find something more profitable to do. I guess you can argue that some businesses of cultural or otherwise non-monetary worth should have some subsidies, but as long as the company goal is to "bring in the dough", then that's the dumbes…

> Tax rate and tax evasion aren't really linked. It's about culture and enforcement And how does that culture happen? Do you think people just get up one morning and decide to do tax evasion? Of course they are linked - especially in countries in which the private sector is underrepresented and overwhelmed compared to the retired, the unemployed and the ones in the public sector, all of them assisted socially. In a c…

The correlation is almost the exact opposite: https://ideas.repec.org/p/ces/ceswps/_431.html

It's cultural, tax evasion is higher in countries which were recently dicatatorships (Spain, Portugal, Greece) or never developed a strong central government (Italy.)

Re: “I’m in the US – what if I just ignore the EU VAT changes?”

#105

Post by acveilleux »

maaku wrote: post #48
tartuffe78 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US does have medicare and medicaid, which aren't universal but still are nationalized healthcare for a lot of people.

Nationalized health insurance, which is a little different.

I live in Quebec and technically I don't have nationalized healthcare but rather health insurance. It doesn't change the fact that I don have to pay anything out of pocket at any hospital I go to here.

An itemized and detailed claim will be made on my behalf to the insurance agency to get everything paid.

From a user pov it makes no difference how the system works.

Re: “I’m in the US – what if I just ignore the EU VAT changes?”

#106

Post by nagrom »

humanrebar wrote: post #84
nagrom wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing income tax with sales tax. In the UK, on a salary of £40k (i.e. professional mid-career engineer), before you touch the money, the government takes about 25% for income tax and national insurance. Then, they take 20% of everything else that you spend unless it's non-luxurious foodstuffs, children's clothes or paper books. And, of course, if what you're buying is fuel, they actually take 85% of the pr…

> You're comparing income tax with sales tax. For the purposes of personal budgeting, I don't see why the comparison is unfair. I'm trying to discuss taxation levels, not tax schemes as such. > US has a 30% tax burden That's more on point. That's also low. It doesn't include state and local income taxes. It also ignores other kinds of taxes like property and sales taxes. The U.S. has state-level taxes, which complica…

Your original comment was questioning why a 24% VAT is considered to be outstandingly high. It's the highest rate of VAT in the EU, and broadly speaking taxes in the EU are already higher than in nations of equivalent technological and economic development. So, it's not an unreasonable feeling that a 24% VAT rate is high.

That 30% tax burden for the US is from the same wikipedia page as the European tax burdens. I am assuming that the methodologies used to arrive at the figures are broadly comparable.

Re: “I’m in the US – what if I just ignore the EU VAT changes?”

#107

Post by jmnicolas »

fargolime wrote: post #93
bjt wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No country mandates 6 weeks. The highest is Austria with a total of 38 days between paid vacation and holidays. Most of Europe is around 30 days. See http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2014/08/13/one-few-count... . Scroll about halfway down for a nice infographic.

30 days / 5 weekdays per week = 6 weeks

It depends : in France I have 32 days but a week is 6 days (don't ask me why) so I Have just a bit more than 5 weeks.

Re: “I’m in the US – what if I just ignore the EU VAT changes?”

#108

Post by lotsofmangos »

Jongseong wrote: post #102
lotsofmangos wrote: post #75

" If you ask me – YES it is crazy. There are 28 member states and over 75 different VAT rates – which I should all know and create different invoices for. " If only we had some sort of programmable calculating device to automate this kind of drudgery.

The seller is also supposed to collect evidence of the location of the purchaser (billing addresses, IP addresses, etc.). By the time you're required to collect private data for each transaction, it becomes more than simply the kind of drudgery you can automate away and becomes a burden that is a bit too much for one-person entreprises.

Purchaser inputs details in online form, tax is applied by location, purchaser buys thing. What am I missing here?

Re: “I’m in the US – what if I just ignore the EU VAT changes?”

#109

Post by laurencerowe »

toyg wrote: post #31
Luc wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies don't pay VAT.

I think parent is referring to the classic "VAT advance": in most countries, after a business registers for VAT, after 12 to 24 months the State will calculate your "expected VAT turnout" for the following 1 or 2 years, and demand advance payment. This is because some 80% of businesses don't survive the first 24 months anyway, so the State tries to collect every penny before they go bust. Ironically, that advance pay…

That sounds nuts, but it's nothing like how the system works in the UK. As a small business you complete your VAT return and pay your balance at the end of each quarter. A large business (turnover > £2M) will make payments on account more frequently so they don't get to keep hold of the VAT that has been paid to them as long.

Re: “I’m in the US – what if I just ignore the EU VAT changes?”

#110

Post by Someone »

refurb wrote: post #40
tormeh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really how it works. Tax rate and tax evasion aren't really linked. It's about culture and enforcement. Anyway, if your business can't pay tax it should close and you should find something more profitable to do. I guess you can argue that some businesses of cultural or otherwise non-monetary worth should have some subsidies, but as long as the company goal is to "bring in the dough", then that's the dumbes…

Tax rate and tax evasion aren't really linked. Do you have any sources that support that assertion? Increasing tax rates increase the incentive to avoid said taxes. If I'm going to go to jail for tax fraud, I'm not going to that if the rate is 2%, but I might if it's 50%.

I don't have sources, but I do think it depends a lot on culture. For example, in Europe (WARNING: sweeping generalizations ahead) the northern countries do not have lower taxation rates than the southern ones, but shadow economies are smaller.

Part of that is that many people in the north consider a welfare state (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state) worth paying higher taxes for. "I'm a happy taxpayer" is not an unheard of statement, and said without a grain of irony.

Another part is that it is harder to evade taxes in a culture where people are more honest. If the typical accountant complains if you have money you cannot account for, and cannot be bribed, it is more of a hassle to find one that complies with you (conversely, if your accountant suggests ways to evade taxes, more people will be inclined to do it)

Historically, many consider that culture to be the result of Protestantism. Many Protestants consider democratic government to be the will of god (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_culture#Government). That makes any form of revolt against government a sin.

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