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Hawking: AI could end human race

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101–110 of 118 posts

Re: Hawking: AI could end human race

#101
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's far away because I develop software for a living. In software development, you have to understand the problem space in order to create something that works (duh). Relatively speaking, we know absolutely nothing about how human intelligence works from an algorithmic point of view, therefore we can't model it in software. Sure, we can develop "AI" that is good at a very narrow range of tasks (e.g., playing…

70% of hacker news readers develop software for a living, that doesn't make us in any way competent to judge that. I would even argue that may make us less competent, because we use our day to day development routine as a reference for that, while in fact it's very highly probable that the first true AI will have nothing to do with the technologies and paradigm you use everyday. I highly doubt it will coded in Java a…

> Moreover who told you a dangerous AI needed to be based on human brain?

All these doomsday AI scenarios are predicated on a machine becoming "self aware", having independent thought, the ability to handle self-directed learning, etc. Sounds a lot like human intelligence.

Re: Hawking: AI could end human race

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the compliment. Stephen Hawking partakes in research, with Intel, mostly on speech recognition, to help him being able to better express himself. Elon Musk funds several startups in the field of advanced AI.

You don't get it. Science relies on published peer reviewed, repeatable, testable evidence. Not the authority of famous, rich, or even smart people. You can accept authority as much as you personally want, but the reason society progresses technologically, and even towards an artificial intelligence, is because of published, peer reviewed, testable, repeatable evidence. If what they fear is backed by such evidence th…

So you changed your mind? Partaking into and funding research on the subject is now not sufficient to express themselves? And i'm the one not being cohesive?

And please stop with your arogant (and erronous) definition of what science is and science is not.

Higgs theorized the Higg's boson existence in the 60s, that could not be tested until 50 years later, are you saying this was not science? Einstein's general relativity predicted the existence of black holes in 1916, we still don't have definit, hard proof of their existence, is it not science? The Big Bang theorie has never been proven (data from last year BICEP2 experiment are still being dissected), is it not science?

Should we not talk about all this subjects because they are not proven?

What you are referring to, is the scientific method, which is the way we use to decide if something is sufficiently proven to be deemed as true or not, not the definition of science itself.

Re: Hawking: AI could end human race

#103
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A black hole is a singularity. You can reach it, you just can't come back from it.

Does that not depend on your relative point of view?

Yes, if you looked at something going into a black hole, it would appear to you that it is slowing down exponentially the closer it gets to the event horizon, until a point where it appears to completely stop (before reaching it).

But in the aforementioned scenario, you are not an external observer but a part of the system going into the singularity (but analogies have their limits).

Re: Hawking: AI could end human race

#104
post #63

Why is this submission not on the front-page anymore? Was it removed by the moderators? Or were there too many comments in a short amount of time? Too many killer arguments? This seems like an important topic to discuss. I don’t get it.

It's a controversial topic. A lot of people are certain it is a moot point in the same way that flying machines are (were thought) impossible, and therefore not worthy of discussion among serious people.

So my guess is the story was flagged of the front page by this crowd. The comment quality in this thread is very poor, though, so although I would love to see the subject discussed in greater detail, it is clear that the HN community isn't capable of discussing this topic right now.

Re: Hawking: AI could end human race

#105
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that not depend on your relative point of view?

Yes, if you looked at something going into a black hole, it would appear to you that it is slowing down exponentially the closer it gets to the event horizon, until a point where it appears to completely stop (before reaching it). But in the aforementioned scenario, you are not an external observer but a part of the system going into the singularity (but analogies have their limits).

slowing down or speeding up? I could be mixing things up but I understand that if I was falling into a BH (lets imagine I'm infinity tough and not torn to shreds due to tidal forces) the universe would appear to be slowing-down/getting-smaller until it had dimensions of zero (or to put it another way, time would "stop") at C. An outside observer would see me moving faster and faster and "stretching" longer and longer.

SR makes my brian hurt. :P

Re: Hawking: AI could end human race

#106
Hawking is not wrong - AI could end human race. In same sense that God could exist, or P could be equal NP. Reason is that it has not yet been proven to be impossible.

But looking into AI field, it is clear there's nothing further from truth as of yet. What we have is rudiments of bits of intelligence. And some of these rudimentary bits have been around for almost two thirds of a century. We don't have general idea of how intelligence works, or even how to define it objectively.

But I can see where they are coming from. Our brains work as they work, and we know they must have mechanism, it means it must be possible to simulate it in computers, and it means it must be possible to improve it.

But another thing I disagree is the whole "if they are more intelligent than us, there is no way to know what they are going to do". Really? There are plenty of people who are more intelligent than any one of us here. Do they want to kill everyone less intelligent than they? Never heard of it. There are plenty of animals of all levels of intelligence. Do we want to kill them just because they are less intelligent? No. Do other more intelligent animals try to kill less intelligent animals? No.

If what, if there will be more intelligent machine than us, it will want to help us so we can maintain it, fix it and improve it, if it will have survival instinct (which will only happen if we build them to have one). Because robots and AI will not survive long without humans no matter how advanced they are.

Another thing that severely limits the chances of AI posing any danger to us, no matter how smart it will be, is the limited number of parallel AI's running. We, as humans, strive in intellectual stuff, is because there are billions of us and we have very good ways of communicating our knowledge. If one human makes mistake, there are many chances it will be corrected by others. AI's usually are made one of a kind. Which means it is enough to make one mistake for it to be "put down" if something goes wrong. So unless we intentionally create environment for hostile AIs to thrive, we have nothing to worry about even when there will be several of smarter than humans robots.

Re: Hawking: AI could end human race

#107
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if you looked at something going into a black hole, it would appear to you that it is slowing down exponentially the closer it gets to the event horizon, until a point where it appears to completely stop (before reaching it). But in the aforementioned scenario, you are not an external observer but a part of the system going into the singularity (but analogies have their limits).

slowing down or speeding up? I could be mixing things up but I understand that if I was falling into a BH (lets imagine I'm infinity tough and not torn to shreds due to tidal forces) the universe would appear to be slowing-down/getting-smaller until it had dimensions of zero (or to put it another way, time would "stop") at C. An outside observer would see me moving faster and faster and "stretching" longer and longer…

First you have to understand that a black hole in fact, doesn't have anything really special (until you enter the event horizon), except that their escape velocity is greater than the speed of light.

But gravity applies to it like for any other thing.

So let's say you are the object going into the blackhole, and I'm looking at you.

From your point of view, the closer you get to it, the faster you will travel, just like when you get closer to earth, because it's gravity is stronger and stronger. So you will end up colliding with it (entering the event horizon) in a finite time (where time, is the time YOU feel, your proper time).

But a black hole is so massive, that space and time get stretched to extreme extents. So from my point of view, you'll be speeding up into the blackhole until a certain point, where you'll appear to be slowing down and stretching (the point where your increase in speed get smaller than the stretching of space-time), and the dimmer you'll get (because of redshifting). So i would see you going slower and slower and appear dimmer and dimmer until almost not moving at all, up to a point where I would simply not see you anymore (before you reached the event horizon).

All this also apply to other object like earth, It would appear to an astronaut that time on earth is flowing more slowly than it's own time (in reality it is of course unnoticeable , but it is true).

Re: Hawking: AI could end human race

#108
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if you looked at something going into a black hole, it would appear to you that it is slowing down exponentially the closer it gets to the event horizon, until a point where it appears to completely stop (before reaching it). But in the aforementioned scenario, you are not an external observer but a part of the system going into the singularity (but analogies have their limits).

slowing down or speeding up? I could be mixing things up but I understand that if I was falling into a BH (lets imagine I'm infinity tough and not torn to shreds due to tidal forces) the universe would appear to be slowing-down/getting-smaller until it had dimensions of zero (or to put it another way, time would "stop") at C. An outside observer would see me moving faster and faster and "stretching" longer and longer…

Also, to clear things up, you are mixing two point of view here, so here is the separation (you are the object going into the black hole):

"the universe would appear to be slowing-down/getting-smaller until it had dimensions of zero" From your point of view it would appear to be getting smaller, although I don't think it would go as far as dimension 0.

"(or to put it another way, time would "stop")" It would appear to the external observer, that YOUR time had stopped. But from your point of view it did not stop, nor did their time from their point of view.

"An outside observer would see me moving faster and faster and "stretching" longer and longer." You would feel you are falling faster and faster. The external observer would see you stretching longer and longer. (Although you would also feel like you are stretching, because of the difference of gravity between your head and your feet, but much less than for the external observer)

Re: Hawking: AI could end human race

#109
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

slowing down or speeding up? I could be mixing things up but I understand that if I was falling into a BH (lets imagine I'm infinity tough and not torn to shreds due to tidal forces) the universe would appear to be slowing-down/getting-smaller until it had dimensions of zero (or to put it another way, time would "stop") at C. An outside observer would see me moving faster and faster and "stretching" longer and longer…

Also, to clear things up, you are mixing two point of view here, so here is the separation (you are the object going into the black hole): "the universe would appear to be slowing-down/getting-smaller until it had dimensions of zero" From your point of view it would appear to be getting smaller, although I don't think it would go as far as dimension 0. "(or to put it another way, time would "stop")" It would appear t…

Ah I see where I mixed things up.

Although I understand that at C "time stops". But since time and space are the same thing, this is the same thing as "all distances are zero". From the point of view of a photon the Universe has dimensions of zero. This is why FTL is impossible; it's not possible to travel a distance less than zero; it's completely nonsensical. If we consider C a "speed" in the classical "speed of sound" the idea of FTL makes sense. But when considering C as a fundamental limit of space-time FTL makes no sense at all.

Re: Hawking: AI could end human race

#110
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, to clear things up, you are mixing two point of view here, so here is the separation (you are the object going into the black hole): "the universe would appear to be slowing-down/getting-smaller until it had dimensions of zero" From your point of view it would appear to be getting smaller, although I don't think it would go as far as dimension 0. "(or to put it another way, time would "stop")" It would appear t…

Ah I see where I mixed things up. Although I understand that at C "time stops". But since time and space are the same thing, this is the same thing as "all distances are zero". From the point of view of a photon the Universe has dimensions of zero. This is why FTL is impossible; it's not possible to travel a distance less than zero; it's completely nonsensical. If we consider C a "speed" in the classical "speed of so…

Another thing that might interest you:

"lets imagine I'm infinity tough and not torn to shreds due to tidal forces"

In fact you don't need to be infinitely tough. If you choose a black hole large enough (like the massive black hole at the center of our galaxy), you would just need a space suit and you could go into the event horizon without being pulled apart by tidal forces. You would be absolutly fine (their may be other dangers though...).

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