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Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

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Re: Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

#101

Post by conroe64 »

carbocation wrote: post #75
pekk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, someone else with more expertise may show up, but the studies showing that drinking is helpful for heart disease say that this is about drinking one. Not "way too much" - mortality increases dramatically if you drink way too much, over what it would be if you didn't drink at all. The advantage of drinking is completely erased by drinking too much. The message isn't as mixed as you think.

This is essentially correct as far as I understand things. There is epidemiological evidence that As a physician I tell my patients that there may be a benefit from such very carefully controlled, modest drinking, but there is almost certainly a benefit from abstaining rather than over-drinking. Alcohol overuse makes you look old (yes I will appeal to vanity); it suppresses your bone marrow and makes you anemic; it c…

What do you think of the study mentioned in this article that indicates that heavy drinkers outlive abstainers?

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2017200...

Here is the study itself:

http://courses.ttu.edu/jkoch/ETOH/Readings/Late_life_alcohol...

Re: Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

#102

Post by mrj »

noname123 wrote: post #59

While we are at it, can we list some other addictions that we use to cope with life. Me personally, it's gambling, pornography, sulking alone, facebooking acquaintances to see how they're doing better than me or worse, checking sports score and living vicariously through the lives of professional athletes on and off the field, checking TechCrunch/Hack News and doing the same with tech billionaires, making up lists an…

Yesh, I recognize some of the thinking in this post, and trust me, you're going about it all wrong. Until you figure yourself out, you're not going to make meaningful relationships or be happy in them.

You need to find what defines you, what you are about. Then, you'll need to make your peace with it. Own it.

I'm not sure the people you have mentioned feel any better about themselves than you do. Normal people reach a point where they have enough money and they stop and learn to paint or something. It's a particular kind of dysfunction to earn billions.

If you are not a downtown type, leave. There are plenty of bored potential partners in other places. Focus on joining organizations that will put you with other people of like interests. Shared experiences drive friendships. Drinking at pubs doesn't count. A group that hikes every weekend, does. Find a group that says important things.

You seem to dislike the shallowness you feel around you, so don't be shallow. Nothing you wrote says anything about you, just some vague ideas about success that feel thrust on you by what you've read. If you were really all about success and that junk, I don't think you would feel so miserable about pursuing it. You have freedom, much more than you think.

Re: Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

#103

Post by gress »

andruby wrote: post #74
noname123 wrote: post #59

While we are at it, can we list some other addictions that we use to cope with life. Me personally, it's gambling, pornography, sulking alone, facebooking acquaintances to see how they're doing better than me or worse, checking sports score and living vicariously through the lives of professional athletes on and off the field, checking TechCrunch/Hack News and doing the same with tech billionaires, making up lists an…

Thank you for sharing the honest evaluation of your life. The only advice I can give you after having lived in the, from my point of view, shallow American tech world: move to Europe. The people in most European countries will be less welcoming at first, but I can tell you, if you stick through you will find them to be more profound. It helps that we don't have an American Dream which focusses on financial prosperity…

You don't have to move to Europe. Just Oakland.

Re: Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

#104

Post by gress »

dragonwriter wrote: post #22
zo1 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" You have to wonder what the economic impact would be if government policy were driven by a top ten list of quality-of-life issues. " Not all issues boil down to "economic impact". Nor is it the only determining factor when deciding on such matters. You have to take into account peoples willingness, or lack thereof to do these things you speak of. Otherwise, you'll have to concede that all you're trying to do is max…

> Not all issues boil down to "economic impact". Arguably, they really do , but you have to remember that economics is about the distribution of scarce things (both material goods and services) connected to experienced utility (money is just a -- rather poor in many respects, but also very convenient -- proxy for utility.)

Some kind of platonic ideal of economics may be about experienced utility, but in practice it's just more politics.

Re: Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

#105

Post by taway »

andruby wrote: post #74
noname123 wrote: post #59

While we are at it, can we list some other addictions that we use to cope with life. Me personally, it's gambling, pornography, sulking alone, facebooking acquaintances to see how they're doing better than me or worse, checking sports score and living vicariously through the lives of professional athletes on and off the field, checking TechCrunch/Hack News and doing the same with tech billionaires, making up lists an…

Thank you for sharing the honest evaluation of your life. The only advice I can give you after having lived in the, from my point of view, shallow American tech world: move to Europe. The people in most European countries will be less welcoming at first, but I can tell you, if you stick through you will find them to be more profound. It helps that we don't have an American Dream which focusses on financial prosperity…

I was born in Portugal and lived there for most of my life. Virtually everything the OP said could describe some portuguese person just as well. Hell, I could have written it at some point and it would be a surprisingly accurate summary of my life back then. These are symptoms of problems that live in you, that consume you from the inside, they will follow you wherever you go, you can't just run away and escape them all. I don't have any recommendations, but you have my empathy and understanding. I believe you will find your way out, maybe by finding some deeper meaning to your life, maybe by finding your place in the world or maybe by just stop giving a fuck.

On the other hand I have a feeling that something is pretty fucked with western society in general. And as the western model of society is pretty much expanding everywhere it is becoming a global problem. I can't quite put by finger on it but maybe it has to do with ever growing expectations, the idea that we can be or do everything, that is all in our hands and only depends on us puts an immense pressure on our shoulders and leads to immense pain. The truth, I think, is that luck plays an huge part in our life, on our successes and on our failures.

I am not sure if I made any sense, if I did not, please accept my apologies ;)

Re: Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

#107

Post by mistermann »

teddyh wrote: post #26
ryanmim wrote: post #12

I drink way too much. I've accepted this. What stops me from drinking way too much? Not much, because I'm able to rationalize my drinking with the many beneficial effects touted. There's a lot of information about how drinking a bit is helpful for heart disease and how it basically reduces mortality across the board. More information is needed about how drinking is HARMFUL beyond cirrhosis and the short term effects…

You are not the same person while drunk. If you think that the person you are while sober is a better person, you have a perfectly valid reason for not drinking. I’ll just leave you with this: http://www.cracked.com/blog/9-youtube-videos-that-prove-anyo... Not so much to prove that you can do it, but more for the change that anyone can see. You could hardly tell that it’s the same person in the first videos as the la…

Really interesting videos, thanks.

Amazing how such a relatively small guy could be that coherent after 17 beers....and could put away 40 in one sitting.

Re: Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

#108

Post by tangue »

throwawaywayway wrote: post #67
ryanmim wrote: post #12

I drink way too much. I've accepted this. What stops me from drinking way too much? Not much, because I'm able to rationalize my drinking with the many beneficial effects touted. There's a lot of information about how drinking a bit is helpful for heart disease and how it basically reduces mortality across the board. More information is needed about how drinking is HARMFUL beyond cirrhosis and the short term effects…

Honest question: How much is too much? I drink about 2-4 fairly strong beers a night (5-7% ABV), almost every night, and while I certainly feel it, I've only been "shitfaced" (or whatever you call "drinking to the point that you lose control") maybe half a dozen times in my life. The fact that I'm not doing the (apparently) normal thing for young folk and getting trashed every Friday night (or ever, really) gives me…

The toxic effects of alcohol are cumulative over time, so in the long run you might be at greater risk than binge drinkers. And if you're drinking 4 beers you 're not far from the threshold for liver disease [1] ( 1 liter of beer at 7% = 56 g of alcohol; the threshold is 50g). Alcohol is also linked to high blood pressure; you should check yours. Besides all that alcohol is also high in calories and you'll have to deal overweight issues too.

I have a friend like you, he drinks to unwind, and I don't consider him an alcoholic, I'm just sad that in ten years he 'll be in bad shape.

[1] http://www.institutdanone.org/objectif-nutrition/nutrition-a... (in French)

Re: Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

#109

Post by mike_esspe »

conroe64 wrote: post #101
carbocation wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is essentially correct as far as I understand things. There is epidemiological evidence that As a physician I tell my patients that there may be a benefit from such very carefully controlled, modest drinking, but there is almost certainly a benefit from abstaining rather than over-drinking. Alcohol overuse makes you look old (yes I will appeal to vanity); it suppresses your bone marrow and makes you anemic; it c…

What do you think of the study mentioned in this article that indicates that heavy drinkers outlive abstainers? http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2017200... Here is the study itself: http://courses.ttu.edu/jkoch/ETOH/Readings/Late_life_alcohol...

Looks like confounding factors are the reason.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22152665

CONCLUSIONS: Among older adults who are moderate drinkers, the apparent unique effects of wine on longevity may be explained by confounding factors correlated with wine consumption.

Re: Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

#110

Post by XorNot »

sharkweek wrote: post #33
matwood wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. My alcohol use has been becoming less and less as I get older. I love a nice wine or good beer, but my nights of going out partying are way behind me.

I'm the same -- at the ripe age of 28, I had two nice beers with dinner the other night and woke up with a headache. I can barely handle it anymore; which is arguably a good thing. I still enjoy a good beer, but other than that, have basically lost the taste for all other alcohol.

I've found my tastes for scotch are directly correlated to how I'm feeling about life at the moment. Like, it's amazing: generally worried about work, scotch tastes great. Feeling upbeat and thinking of future projects? I get frustrated that there isn't more available in the "uppers" category for consciousness adjustment.
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