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Founder Depression

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: Founder Depression

#101

Post by gedrap »

tossmeaway wrote: post #52
tossmeaway wrote: post #33

Father died in final year of college. Only child moved home to mourning mother(of course!) Went on huge sarge to find a women. Did side work, but focused on 2nd startup(1st one in back of my mind to reboot.) Failed. Arrogant and never found a full time job. Was in love and my girl needed to marry to stay in country. She was fine I thought while i went after my dreams. Finally found my 3rd idea and was working on skil…

Why was I down voted for my open heart experiences for those who are struggling with their dreams?

Thanks for opening up, I can relate to marriage-to-stay-together situation. I honestly hope you are feeling better. I upvoted because I feel like more people should see it.

>>> Why was I down voted

Don't worry, probably just some kiddo from reddit :)

Re: Founder Depression

#102

Post by te_chris »

kyro wrote: post #20

Can someone provide insight on life after a failed startup, in terms of career prospects? Often depression can make you feel as if you're failing on all fronts, that nothing will get better in the foreseeable future. Most of the time that really isn't true. You're often stuck in a temporary rut that your mind drastically exaggerates. But for a founder who's going through a dark time and whose startup ultimately fails…

Honestly, and this is all my personal experience so not really generalizable, but finally admitting that my old startup had failed and we were going to shut it down was like getting released from a prison. Instantly you no longer have to worry about the thing you spent all your time worrying about and you can re-balance. It's pretty liberating in all honesty.

Just make sure you have people around to support you and also to use all that new found mental capacity on.

Re: Founder Depression

#103

Post by npizzolato »

pbiggar wrote: post #11

> You’ll also be surprised how much you find other founders are willing to listen. This is super important. Non-founders often will not get it, in my experience. If you haven't started a company, you often will not have experienced the intense ups and downs, and just how fucked everything can be, even when you pour your life and soul into it, and that there really can be a light on the other side of the tunnel. One b…

>Non-founders often will not get it, in my experience.

This is the kind of self important nonsense I would expect from a high schooler. Sorry, but starting a company is not the only way to feel intense ups and downs, or to put your heart into something only to be disappointed. Maybe thinking that you're problems are completely unique is contributing to the problem. There are lots of other people with their own problems who are either able to relate or at least empathize.

Re: Founder Depression

#104

Post by [deleted] »

EvanMiller wrote: post #87

Dig deeper, Sam. Achievement-oriented people are given to depression both when they fail and when they succeed. If your identity is tied up in your work, then you feel bad about yourself when work isn't going well. That's obvious, and that's the message of this blog post. The implicit message is that you're depressed because you're not succeeding, so get your shit together and succeed and be happy like everyone else.…

[deleted]

Re: Founder Depression

#105

Post by balls187 »

kyro wrote: post #20

Can someone provide insight on life after a failed startup, in terms of career prospects? Often depression can make you feel as if you're failing on all fronts, that nothing will get better in the foreseeable future. Most of the time that really isn't true. You're often stuck in a temporary rut that your mind drastically exaggerates. But for a founder who's going through a dark time and whose startup ultimately fails…

I think the best way to do well after failure is to be intellectually honest with yourself.

Polonius said it best "To thine own self be true."

As an engineer, in Seattle and the Bay Area, you will always have access to jobs.

For non-technical founders, you will have had gained valuable experience that will make you significantly more attractive.

You often have to wear multiple hats, manage your time, focus on what matters, and you gain a lot of experience in finance, shipping product, dealing with investors, dealing with customers, all of which is harder to get if you have a specific role at a larger organization.

Now, there are startups, and there are startups. If you quit your job and tinker at something for a few months to a few years and never really do anything to show for it (ship an MVP, hire an employee or two, raise or attempt to raise money), then, I imagine you didn't really learn anything, but if you were able to do those things, you will have gained real world applicable experience.

Being a founder, was the 2nd best thing that I could have ever done to my career.

My start-up didn't fail, but I ended up leaving because I was slowing it down.

My role now is basically a founder working for a late stage organization. I use lean methodology and entrepreneurship thinking to build new services to explore untapped market opportunities. Instead of raising funding with investors, my company will fund the growth of the service into a full fledged business unit.

Re: Founder Depression

#106

Post by marvin »

EvanMiller wrote: post #87

Dig deeper, Sam. Achievement-oriented people are given to depression both when they fail and when they succeed. If your identity is tied up in your work, then you feel bad about yourself when work isn't going well. That's obvious, and that's the message of this blog post. The implicit message is that you're depressed because you're not succeeding, so get your shit together and succeed and be happy like everyone else.…

Very well formulated and insightful comment. Thanks for taking the time to write this. A lot of ambitious people seem to struggle with this question of external vs. internal motivation - although I think the most successful entrepeneurs don't, because for some of us this motivation is in fact internal. Some can actually say "do what you love/love what you do" and not lie through their teeth. And others are able to treat it in a purely businesslike manner, i.e. "this is a job and it's only temporary".

Many others, though, are as you say: Ambitious because external pressures have always told you it is a good idea, and because teachers, parents, professors and peers have always given you recognition for good work - it's a central part of your identity.

Re: Founder Depression

#107

Post by hippich »

Omniusaspirer wrote: post #96
hippich wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you sensitive guys had your therapy with down-voting me and now feel better that you "won" something :))

>It is like 300lbs fat kid will seek counseling because he can't withstand failures on a track. C'mon. You guys too spoiled here in USA. You got downvoted because statements like this don't belong on HN, especially in a post specifically discussing depression and the value of counseling and therapy in treating it. Edit: I will add, I didn't downvote you but I'm really not sure what you were expecting.

Oh, I wasn't kidding myself, I was expecting down votes. I just noticed that some my less "hurting" comments were down voted too, so I guess someone was just letting steam go ofg on all my comments here, including the one you replied to :)

And I don't think these down votes had something to do with comment not belonging here, rather it hit people too close and they let their feelings go. And fun fact - first 5 or so minutes this comment was up voted, so some people here actually share thoughts. Don't just assume something not belong here if it is just you and few other people think so.

I did not really intend to say that counseling by itself is something to be ashamed of (what many assumed is,) but rather that it is wrong to expect that organization like YC should provide counseling, and attracting less business capable people. I don't believe there is lack of people who are ready to challenges.

Re: Founder Depression

#108

Post by thegeomaster »

earbitscom wrote: post #29

Am I qualified to chime in? We just shut down today after 4.5 years. ;) This is very true, and unfortunate. It makes it easy to feel like everyone is being successful except you. I realized this a couple years ago and, when talking to other founders, I just stopped sugar coating things about my situation. I would tell them about our struggles, what was going on, and its affect on me. I don't think I've ever been brou…

> It makes it easy to feel like everyone is being successful except you.

I'd say this is hardly a case only when you're a founder. Throughout life, if you keep high expectations of yourself (which is IMHO a good thing in the long run), you will constantly feel like people around you are succeeding, and you're struggling. I've sometimes felt that way, but the key, for me at least, was to learn to take it easy on myself from time to time and not to be sickly critical of my own work.

Sometimes people feel like everyone else is succeeding and they are failing because, well, it is true to some extent observable by them. (It sounds grim, but in reality you can mostly turn the tables if you invest enough effort.) However, sometimes you can get that feel if you constantly observe the people who simply set the bar lower. Psychological processes that drive us are curious; sometimes they may make us redefine success so that we can appear more successful to other people. But this is not a real, healthy gain: it's a pathological one. A giant, impressive pile of counterfeit, useless money, if you will.

Just my two cents. I'm most likely talking out of my ass :)

By the way, kudos to you and everyone else for being a founder. It sounds like both a great struggle and a fun journey, and everyone with the courage (or the madness!) to go down that path has my deepest respect.

Re: Founder Depression

#109

Post by bryanh »

coffeemug wrote: post #21

I've been to some really dark places and back. If anyone needs to talk, shoot me an e-mail -- slava@rethinkdb.com. I'll buy you coffee, listen, and try to help you find a better place.

I will attest that Slava is not only wicked smart, but a great person to just talk with.

Re: Founder Depression

#110

Post by rdrdss23 »

EvanMiller wrote: post #87

Dig deeper, Sam. Achievement-oriented people are given to depression both when they fail and when they succeed. If your identity is tied up in your work, then you feel bad about yourself when work isn't going well. That's obvious, and that's the message of this blog post. The implicit message is that you're depressed because you're not succeeding, so get your shit together and succeed and be happy like everyone else.…

After a first reading I felt that it really resonated.

However, if you think of people that do persue what THEY want from life, they are often quite miserable too. Asking yourself "what would you do if money wasn't a concern and you had all the time in the world" ends up not being particularly meaningful. People born into wealthy families try to figure out what THEY want out of life, and end they are just as depressed and full of self-doubt. Sure you can spend a year surfing in Hawaii, or painting, or gardening, but they end up feeling like ephemeral distractions (unless you go all out and turn into an adrenalin junky - though I don't know honestly how happy they are). Lasting motivation comes from your interactions with the world - and often "doing things that OTHER people wanted" is (if you're honest with yourself) to a degree "what YOU wanted out of life" .

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