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I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

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Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#101

Post by Aoyagi »

memracom wrote: post #53
Aoyagi wrote: post #16

And again this is extremely one-sided. Propagandistic even. And it makes it to the top of HN. Again. "THE POLICE IS READY TO SHOOT". But she won't say that it's with rubber slugs or that the protesters are throwing molotovs and shooting fireworks (which can deal nasty damage). Rocks are implied, I think. I tried to really dig into the affair, but it's too complicated with both sides corrupt (like it typically happens…

Over the last couple of months there is photo evidence of protestors with pistols and sniper rifles. Not to mention the bullets removed from wounded police officers. And who is to say that the gunshot victims were not shot by rivals in the protest camp? Lots of rhetoric and innuendo but very little actual proof beyond the individual incidents that you would find in the USA, Canada or any EU country. When was the last…

The pistols I've seen were airsoft pistols and the rifles seemed like BB guns or also airsoft guns. Can't verify, of course.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#102

Post by einhverfr »

kamaal wrote: post #26
daliusd wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone is Gandhi or Dalai Lama.

It is difficult to see how Gandhi's methods could be applied in a country where opponents of the regime disappear in the middle of the night and are never heard of again. Without a free press and the right of assembly, it is impossible not merely to appeal to outside opinion, but to bring a mass movement into being, or even to make your intentions known to your adversary. -- George Orwell There are places on earth wh…

It's a remarkably complex issue. I would however say that the case that comes to my mind though is not the USSR but Dutch Colonial Indonesia, and the jailing and exile of Sukarno for printing nationalist, anti-colonial material.

This looks on the outside very successful regarding suppressing Sukarno. After all the Dutch succeeded in keeping him contained until the Japanese arrived. However in a closer look you see a slow and steady development of a network of support that Sukarno built in Sumatra while in exile, which was used to support his efforts on his return to Java.

So I am not sure it is so clear.

Another interesting example might be Gorbachev in Russia. Here's someone who was quite clearly a communist and a Marxist, who, nonetheless, was not above critiquing the existing Soviet system in relation to the West and in so doing exposed cracks that caused the whole system to collapse. Gorbachev of course built on Khrushchev in this regard, but it shows that what is important is the alliance and solidarity, and to the extent that non-violence is conducive to that (and it usually is) it usually is helpful.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#103

Post by bonzoq »

mtrimpe wrote: post #87
bonzoq wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this comment. Those people occupying the square in Kyiv are incapable of any form of compromise. They refused to leave government buildings that they occupied, their leaders refused government posts they were offered, and for example recently one of the judges that sentenced protestors to house arrest was shot on the street to death. Why won't they peacefully wait for the next elections which will be in…

Weren't they peacefully protesting until they were forcefully disbanded by the police?

To my best knowledge and I'm vividly interested in the topic they were not. They were armed from the start. A common type of weapon was a baseball bat with nails. For instance, one of the three oposition leaders, Mr Klitschko (also known for being a world-class heavy-weight boxer), was attacked with a fire extinguisher after he announced a temporary 'cease-fire' to the people on the square. This demonstrates that the protesters, or at least some if not most of them, are not resonable and by no means peaceful.

Imagine this type of peaceful protest in any western capital and those protesters would be now peaceful in jail.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#104

Post by reirob »

memracom wrote: post #58
nhaehnle wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for that. As a European, I would add that you really need to be aware that the country seems to be split along historical lines: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/01/24... It seems that Kiev, the capital, happens to be in a region that is dominated by Ukrainian-speaking people, who feel closer to (Western/Central) Europe than to Russia. Therefore, a lot of protests are happening in the…

Belgium was split along historical lines but they talked over their differences and found common ground. The result of that was the beginning of the European Union which is why Brussels, Belgium is the EU capital today. So why can't the Ukrainians solve their problems the EU way?

As far as i know Belgium has not yet settled their national conflict between french-speaking and non-french-speaking territories. Any Belgians here to shed some light?

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#106

Post by bruceb »

GhostHardware wrote: post #96
tlrobinson wrote: post #4

Random related anecdote: I saw a couple people walking down the street in SF tonight with a banner that read "Stop the killing in Ukraine".

So, did the killings stop?

I hate to make light of the situation but damn that was funny.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#107

Post by dmytrish »

bonzoq wrote: post #61
memracom wrote: post #39

This is a pure propaganda piece that shows nothing other than some skill in video editing and constructing a sound track. Think, people, think. Do you want to spread this message in your countries? This summer when there is an Occupy or 99% demonstration in your country, do you want young men in helmets and masks carrying baseball bats and molotov cocktails to take charge of it? Will you carry a pistol with you at th…

Thank you for this comment. Those people occupying the square in Kyiv are incapable of any form of compromise. They refused to leave government buildings that they occupied, their leaders refused government posts they were offered, and for example recently one of the judges that sentenced protestors to house arrest was shot on the street to death. Why won't they peacefully wait for the next elections which will be in…

They refused because we know worth of our government promises: they can promise everything and then silently beat and murder activists, change their mind and decisions unpredictably (Europe learned that recently). There's a real lack of trust in regime and it's based on facts and experience. Next elections are going to be a bloody mess of graft, manipulations and violence we have no legal means to cope with. Offered posts were sham to distract people and bribe for opposition leaders to shut up. Yanukovych seems to be incapable of a compromise with people without force. The only thing that forced him to offer those posts was reaction of the world (sanctions, political measures, threats to freeze his "family" accounts in Western banks) to the violence at Hrushevskogo (even not the violence itself, though any patriot would refuse its post after his country is teared apart by his actions, but it is well known that Yanukovych is not а patriot by any means).

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#108

Post by middus »

memracom wrote: post #57
sgift wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you want to spread this message in your countries? This summer when there is an Occupy or 99% demonstration in your country, do you want young men in helmets and mass carrying baseball bats and molotov cocktails to take charge of it? Will you carry a pistol with you at the demonstration to shoot police officers? Depends: Will the police by the time the next big Occupy protests start already have shot people with…

> Will the police by the time the next big Occupy protests start already have shot people without reason? They do that in Canada. I've lived here for 3 years and there have been several incidents in the press. Ukraine has no monopoly on this.

What's your point? That it's okay if police in Canada do it, too?

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#109

Post by ghayes »

simias wrote: post #90

I can't believe this kind of submission manages to work on HN. This is pure clickbait devoid of any content. Nothing to spark a debate or "gratify one's intellectual curiosity", to cite the guidelines. It's just "Click here if you want the good guys (us) to win!", and people are clicking. Amazing. And people are wondering why long-form journalism is dying.

Honest question, is there such a thing as down-vote for submissions (not comments) on HN? After reading a ton of StackOverflow election posts, I believe adding more self-moderation to HN frequenters could help reduce link bait and improve overall quality. That is, the mods here are active, but so are the readers.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#110

Post by guard-of-terra »

Kiro wrote: post #66

I don't know. I haven't heard one compelling reason why Ukraine would be a dictatorship. Instead I get emotional videos and clips of what's probably pretty isolated police brutality. Enlighten me please.

Because Russia and Belarus did (clarified:) turn into dictatorships, and Ukraine was following track?

For me it would be enough to get scared.

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