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'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#101

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

WayneDB wrote: post #97
chris_wot wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I like them quite a bit. But it is sexist to make an app to encourage men to ogle random women's breasts and submit photos while doing so, to an audience of men and women.

It's not sexist to make an app to encourage men to ogle random women's breasts and submit photos while doing so, to an audience of men and women. Men are doing it anyway and there's nothing wrong with that either.

> It's not sexist to make an app to encourage men to ogle random women's breasts and submit photos while doing so, to an audience of men and women.

I think you will have to accept that many people hold a exactly opposite opinion on that point.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#102

Post by gregd »

When you gear an entire industry to the immaturity of male youth, what do you expect?

I'm a 46 year old male with almost 20 years of various IT experience (systems administration to .net coding to sql server) and the terms rockstar, ninja, brogrammer don't apply, nor appeal to me. I would argue that the entire IT industry is to blame for this bullshit.

Stop, just for a moment, to think about the culture you're manifesting in the words you use to describe your workforce. Rockstar? Really? Because most "rockstars" wash up, burn out, fade away or simply die and the fall is as quick as the rise.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#103

Post by WayneDB »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #101
WayneDB wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not sexist to make an app to encourage men to ogle random women's breasts and submit photos while doing so, to an audience of men and women. Men are doing it anyway and there's nothing wrong with that either.

> It's not sexist to make an app to encourage men to ogle random women's breasts and submit photos while doing so, to an audience of men and women. I think you will have to accept that many people hold a exactly opposite opinion on that point.

Did I indicate anywhere that some people don't have the opposite, poorly formed opinion? I don't give a shit. If they try censorship, I say offend them even more until THEY accept that not everyone agrees with them.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#104

Post by sp332 »

laichzeit0 wrote: post #80
sp332 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This hypothetical is not useful. You don't have to take it as an arbitrary "axiom" for the argument; you could empirically measure some of the women who are offended by this talk.

The reason why it's useful is because in your case (empirically measure) it becomes at best "relative". There may be cultures / societies where woman desire men to stare at their breasts. In this case his argument would mean naught.

Maybe? My point is, empirically, we are not in that culture!

Edit: oh wait... You're saying that maybe the guys in the presentation are not reducing women to their physical bits, but actually treating them as human beings who like being treated this way? If so there is a simple way to disprove it: The women can't say "no". Since the women are not given any agency, they are not being treated as human beings but as mere objects with no control over how their bodies are used.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#105

Post by icebraining »

rational_me wrote: post #52
yashg wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

//i can't see how a woman could find it offensive // Feminism won't be required the day men understand why a woman would find it offensive. Imagine being a man in a room full of women in a society ruled over by women and all women are laughing at a penis stare app. Today you'd say "Oh I would find it funny too", but that's male privilege. We live in a male dominated society so you fail to see why women would not find…

It already happens. Women laughing at a man having his penis cut off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDjUjhexTQk&hd=1

You forgot the "society ruled by women" part.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#106

Post by WayneDB »

chris_wot wrote: post #99
WayneDB wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody was reduced to that though. What fun would a pair of tits floating in the air be? I'd rather stare at tits that are attached to a whole woman.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

You said "One other part of sexism is sexual objectification, which reduces the person or whole gender to an instrument of sexual pleasure."

And I said that nobody was reduced to being just a sexual object.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#107

Post by WayneDB »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #96
WayneDB wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Entertainment is part of tech and tits as well as tit jokes are damn entertaining.

> tits as well as tit jokes are damn entertaining. For some only. That's the point.

Guess what? Women find tit jokes funny too so don't even try and say that you know what the whole group of Women is thinking...

Fuck cencorship. The freedom to offend is more important.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#108

Post by WayneDB »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #39
jnardiello wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Just expressing a point of view.

A devil's advocate expresses a point of view. Specifically, they express a point of view that they do not agree with.

It's more than that. Playing devil's advocate means you're expressing the opposite point of view when you don't really hold that point of view, but you're doing it to prove a point.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#109

Post by pstack »

chris_wot wrote: post #78
pstack wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't. Presenting it was not an act of discrimination or hate. It was inconsiderate and possibly both crude and dumb.

If its not sexist, then can you explain why it is inconsiderate?

I understand that you're attempting to imply that showing consideration demonstrates an admittance of guilt. I'm afraid that's not a compelling argument.

It's inconsiderate, because it could potentially make some members of the audience uncomfortable or self-aware. This would not be a concern if you knew the comportment of your audience. Snoop Dogg doesn't present himself or his content the same way on David Letterman that he does at a concert.

Someone being uncomfortable with your content doesn't invalidate it nor does your taking their discomfort into consideration in either content or presentation.

It shows that you are a mature human being with empathy.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#110

Post by pstack »

chris_wot wrote: post #83
pstack wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sexism is the assertion that one sex is inferior to the other, usually because of or alongside assertion of stereotypes of that gender. Misogyny is the hatred of women. Neither word really has anything to do with being attracted to the sexuality of the other gender. Neither word really has anything to do with simply being unkind, mean, or insensitive. Unfortunately, we often seem to throw these labels on people (labe…

You do not have a fully defined view of sexism there. One other part of sexism is sexual objectification, which reduces the person or whole gender to an instrument of sexual pleasure, without any view of the person's dignity or humanity.

I just don't share the black-and-white view of the world that you may.

Objectification can be a component of sexism, but in and of itself is not sexist. It is a natural part of human existence demonstrated by both genders on a regular basis in a variety of ways. It is even the entire foundation of initial human attraction. It is not inherently wrong.

Men and women dance at strip clubs. They objectify the customers and the customers objectify the strippers. Hell, my butcher is an object that gives me steak for money and that is all we know of each other. That's okay. You are not obligated to regard everyone as a whole all the time.

We need to stop asserting that every interaction with each person (real or fictional, in person or entertainment) requires a holistic appreciation of every atom of their humanity.

If you objectify all human beings, you share a common trait of sociopaths. If the entirety of your view and interaction with the other gender is based on objectification, then you are probably sexist and have serious issues to deal with. If neither of these are the case, then you are probably a normal human being.

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