U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#101

Post by gohrt » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 11:36 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #74

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #7

So now is the time to identify the federal prosecutors who filed this and petition the government to have them fired. In addition, of course, to asking for a complete pardon for Snowden. It also should be noted that any of the Congressional investigations into this mess are perfectly capable of giving Snowden a grant of immunity from prosecution. People ask what to do. There are at least two avenues open to nip this…

These are political charges, and as the governed we should stand up to the people who are supposed to be working for us and demand that they be dropped. Immediately. Did or did not Edward Snowden leak classified material to the press? Does or does not the government have a duty to attempt to prosecute him? You make it sound like he didn't actually break any laws, when he actually did break a couple. Whether the charg…

The executive has a duty to examine the situation and decide whether the NSA's activities were wrong, and whether Snowden was acting in the national interest when he leaked.

Now every law is legal, that's why we have a Supreme Court. Ergo, not every lawbreak is illegal.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#102

Post by brown9-2 » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 11:36 PM UTC

wavesounds wrote: post #84

[deleted] wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Not if your a whistleblower. What if instead of a domestic spying program he leaked a secret program by his bosses to round up every red haired and freckled person and put them in a concentration camp? Then would you still have to charge him with a crime for revealing a 'secret' program before he could be pardoned and treated as a hero? Of course not, thats ridiculous and so is this.

But he didn't do that.

Are you a whistleblower if what you reveal isn't illegal?

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#103

Post by skwirl » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 11:36 PM UTC

dllthomas wrote: post #88

skwirl wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Most of the major polling organizations call cell phones now, except for automated ones like Rasmussen. This was from Pew. From http://www.people-press.org/methodology/our-survey-methodolo... : "The typical Pew Research Center for the People & the Press national survey selects a random digit sample of both landline and cell phone numbers in all 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia. As the proportion of Ame…

Though of course, people who are deeply concerned about their privacy are likely to be under-represented in any poll.

Perhaps not. In the same poll, 63% said that if Snowden's claims were true, they would feel that their personal privacy has been violated. It just doesn't translate into the public wanting him to walk free.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#104

Post by dllthomas » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 11:38 PM UTC

skwirl wrote: post #103

dllthomas wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though of course, people who are deeply concerned about their privacy are likely to be under-represented in any poll.

Perhaps not. In the same poll, 63% said that if Snowden's claims were true, they would feel that their personal privacy has been violated. It just doesn't translate into the public wanting him to walk free.

There's a significant space between "deeply concerned" and "unconcerned."

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#105

Post by exiva » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 11:38 PM UTC

evilduck wrote: post #97

DanielRibeiro wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pardon petition also only needs more 7k signatures: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow... Remember that the goal is to get the government address the issue, and show that the people are not fine with the NSA's actions. It would be nice to get them to actually pardon him, but that is a much harder goal.

Has any whitehouse.gov petition ever led to actual action being taken?

The White House Honey Ale recipe was released from a we the people petition... So, no.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#106

Post by gohrt » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 11:39 PM UTC

skwirl wrote: post #33

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #7

So now is the time to identify the federal prosecutors who filed this and petition the government to have them fired. In addition, of course, to asking for a complete pardon for Snowden. It also should be noted that any of the Congressional investigations into this mess are perfectly capable of giving Snowden a grant of immunity from prosecution. People ask what to do. There are at least two avenues open to nip this…

I don't think putting pressure on the government to fire the prosecutor who filed the petition is likely to work. A poll earlier this week found that the majority of Americans want Snowden charged and disapprove of what he has done. You need to start with petitioning your fellow Americans.

Majority is not how criminal issues are decided, so that's not an appropriate bar for public opinion.

For example (similar, but exactly the same angle), a conviction requires a unanimous vote, not a majority vote.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#107

Post by bobzimuta » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 11:40 PM UTC

evilduck wrote: post #97

DanielRibeiro wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pardon petition also only needs more 7k signatures: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow... Remember that the goal is to get the government address the issue, and show that the people are not fine with the NSA's actions. It would be nice to get them to actually pardon him, but that is a much harder goal.

Has any whitehouse.gov petition ever led to actual action being taken?

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/response/ale-chief-white-ho...

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#108

Post by gohrt » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 11:40 PM UTC

monkeynotes wrote: post #99

spdy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now the states he can move to just went up. Death penalty: Many countries, such as Australia, Canada, Macao, New Zealand, South Africa, and most European nations except Belarus, will not allow extradition if the death penalty may be imposed on the suspect unless they are assured that the death sentence will not be passed or carried out.

I don't think Virginia allows the death penalty for espionage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Virginia#...

Virginia can not forcibly prevent a Federal captial punishment.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#109

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 11:41 PM UTC

monkeynotes wrote: post #99

spdy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now the states he can move to just went up. Death penalty: Many countries, such as Australia, Canada, Macao, New Zealand, South Africa, and most European nations except Belarus, will not allow extradition if the death penalty may be imposed on the suspect unless they are assured that the death sentence will not be passed or carried out.

I don't think Virginia allows the death penalty for espionage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Virginia#...

> I don't think Virginia allows the death penalty for espionage:

I'd be surprised if espionage, per se, is even an offense under Virginia state law, but it really doesn't matter what Virginia law is since he is being charged with crimes under federal law in federal court that happens to be located in Virginia.

There are times when federal courts, for a variety of reasons, hear state law claims, and in those cases the remedies allowed by the state are relevant. But when federal courts hear federal claims, the state law of the state in which the federal court happens to sit is irrelevant.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#110

Post by dllthomas » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 11:41 PM UTC

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #24

wl wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The response they've given in the past to pardon petitions isn't much of a response at all. I expect a similar non-answer here. Cf. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/response/why-we-cant-commen... https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/response/why-we-can’t-comme...

No matter. It's a gesture. A hundred thousand people giving them the bird.

If we get that to 300 million, they'll have to do something.