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Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

petitions.whitehouse.gov

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Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#101

Post by olefoo »

rd108 wrote: post #97
dylangs1030 wrote: post #31

I don't mean to be cynical, but a mere petition is just the tip of the iceberg. This is a government agency that is commiting widespread breach of privacy. A petition will not be respected. It's an OK start, but it will be essentially meaningless. If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. The ease of an action corresponds to what…

This is foolish. Non-violent protest is how the Civil Rights movement and Martin Luther King, Jr. forced better law, Gandhi did the same and freed India from the British empire. And today we're much more networked and able to communicate directly, P2P, without the media or government as message passer. Our system works remarkably well, considering how poorly it works ;) Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater- th…

Actually, the national security budgets are remarkably insulated from the rest of the government, and there is plenty of evidence that the CIA at the very least, has not been shy about creating other sources of income to fund it's off the books activities.

But yes, transparency should go up as well as down.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#102

Post by eightyone »

jfoutz wrote: post #77
eightyone wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In a rare public filing in the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC), the Justice Department today urged continued secrecy for a 2011 FISC opinion that found the National Security Agency's surveillance under the FISA Amendments Act to be unconstitutional. Significantly, the surveillance at issue was carried out under the same controversial legal authority that underlies the NSA’s recently-revealed PR…

That is a good argument. However, the NSA isn't breaking the law until the supreme court strikes down the FISA amendments, right? I don't understand exactly what happens when a law is found unconstitutional. I can't imagine an analyst at the NSA would be retroactively charged with a crime, would they?

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think that's correct. I believe they have to abide by the FISC ruling until a higher court rules in their favor. Obviously they don't want to take it to a higher court because then the public would find out. There's a reason why they are trying to keep the documents of the ruling a secret. Any lawyers here feel free to chime in.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#103

Post by aj700 »

This should be read as an indictment of what the site has become, not just an example of it.

"Where's the petition to NOT pardon him!!"

I will do it. I will ragequit. This site is turning into a libertarian silicon valley version of freerepublic.

When you've found civilisation, America, in 1000 years or so you'll realise that autoritarianism works and that's why you've got it.

If we had a fascist government, everyone would be in prison except me. I'm sick of the police failing to do their job because they don't know that it IS: to provide a level playing field, that I can see, so I have no need or temptation to cheat in the first place. As an average HN reader, you know this is correct. Ever been pulled over for speeding on a road where everyone else gets away with worse? Until the state STOPS the bad guys having all the fun, you, the state, down to every beat cop, haven't done this. More government now. Much much much much more. Make 50% of the population into prison officers and cops if necessary. There'll be zero unemployment.

Well whaddya know. The great recession has caused Europeans to return to fascism. Way to go Dick Fuld(!)

@pg : either ban all politics from the site or deal with the fires of hell that start in 5 4 3 2 1

Hi there NSA readers, keep it up.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#104

Post by RivieraKid »

swalsh wrote: post #15

The sole purpose of these petitions is to collect mailing lists for people concerned about specific issues. Here is an example where I may not want to be associated with... though I guess they probably have access to my bank accounts, and taxes, and can see I donate to the EFF every year... on a separate note, I really do worry about the well being of this guy.

No, it isn't.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#105

Post by stefanix »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #31

I don't mean to be cynical, but a mere petition is just the tip of the iceberg. This is a government agency that is commiting widespread breach of privacy. A petition will not be respected. It's an OK start, but it will be essentially meaningless. If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. The ease of an action corresponds to what…

There is certainly more you can do, specifically non-violent ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk1XbyFv51k http://beautifultrouble.org/

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#106

Post by rd108 »

Web tools finally able to tip the balance of government more towards direct democracy rather than representative. Signed. eventually, these networked tools will threaten to snowball into actual political change, and their makers will shut them down. but it's pretty easy to make a clone once people have an expectation that this is how government should work.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#107

Post by rd108 »

olefoo wrote: post #101
rd108 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is foolish. Non-violent protest is how the Civil Rights movement and Martin Luther King, Jr. forced better law, Gandhi did the same and freed India from the British empire. And today we're much more networked and able to communicate directly, P2P, without the media or government as message passer. Our system works remarkably well, considering how poorly it works ;) Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater- th…

Actually, the national security budgets are remarkably insulated from the rest of the government, and there is plenty of evidence that the CIA at the very least, has not been shy about creating other sources of income to fund it's off the books activities. But yes, transparency should go up as well as down.

I didn't realize that NSA funding was harder to nil out! I guess because the Pentagon gets their budget and then can do what they want with it? I'm sure strings could be attached to the Pentagon's budget though.

Upvoting your comment here too, though. Thank you.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#108

Post by oinksoft »

aj700 wrote: post #103

This should be read as an indictment of what the site has become, not just an example of it. "Where's the petition to NOT pardon him!!" I will do it. I will ragequit. This site is turning into a libertarian silicon valley version of freerepublic. When you've found civilisation, America, in 1000 years or so you'll realise that autoritarianism works and that's why you've got it. If we had a fascist government, everyone…

Why not just stand up and cool off? The focus of the story is privacy on the internet, and predictably it gets huge play on this website.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#109

Post by RivieraKid »

csomar wrote: post #57
dylangs1030 wrote: post #31

I don't mean to be cynical, but a mere petition is just the tip of the iceberg. This is a government agency that is commiting widespread breach of privacy. A petition will not be respected. It's an OK start, but it will be essentially meaningless. If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. The ease of an action corresponds to what…

If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. Do you have any backups for that? I mean, any historical proof that rioting will make change? You know, Tunisia went on a relatively peaceful revolution and now we have less freedom and more problems/unemployment. It's even worse for countries where the revolution is violent. Having lived…

Ain't going to happen, because PRISM simply doesn't make the lives of 99+% people significantly worse. People riot when there's high unemployment, because that has a big impact on their daily lives. We don't have enough info about PRISM to correctly evaluate what impact does it have on our lives.

Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden

#110

Post by ixnu »

timr wrote: post #94
spikels wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love all the doublespeak around this issue but "warrant-based" is a new one. I'm pretty sure that does NOT mean a warrant specifically naming each person whose information was collected. Or does it? You need a lawyer to translate anything our leaders (biz, gov or other) say. It's all form with very little substance. If you thought you heard something definitive you almost certainly misunderstood.

"I'm pretty sure that does NOT mean a warrant specifically naming each person whose information was collected. Or does it?" Nobody (here) knows. This conversation is more heat than light in part because people are spouting all sorts of uninformed nonsense just to perpetuate their theatrical sense of outrage. What I've read so far suggests that there's some sort of FISA-related oversight of the "reports" generated by…

Did Spitzer or Petraeus have conversations with foreign participants?
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