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The Fallacy of Money As A Means

life-longlearner.com

101–110 of 129 posts

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#101
the author tries to cover himself by saying "people without families to support"

but of course most people plan to have a family someday... when that's taken into consideration, I think the author's claim of "a wasted life" seems extremely naive and misguided

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#102
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having started a family a year ago, I wonder what kind of capital is necessary to start a family is? For diapers? Or do people really want to save up for college when they have barely left college themselves? Until age 3, a child doesn't even need a dedicated room, so basically any apt suitable for 2 people will do. Disclaimer: I'm in Austria, maybe it's easier here.

It depends on how much time you want to spend with your family. For example, if both parents want to stay at home to take care of the kids (admittedly rare), it'd take quite a bit of capital for a middle-class or higher lifestyle.

Agreed. Even if only one of you wants to stay at home for some period, your household income is now halved, with an extra mouth to feed.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#103
post #96

Money is not about peer acceptance, power, or "having nice things". Money is freedom. This only dawned on me when I had absolutely nothing. Without money, you can't really do anything, all your choices have been taken from you. As you start accumulating money, more and more doors open up, and you are increasingly free to do what you like. Money is, almost by definition, the abstraction of means. There's probably an u…

Freedom is power. Power need not be something wielded over others in some cartoony-villian way. In this case it is a kind of countervailing force to prevent others from coercing you into doing things you disagree with solely because they are the source of your income and you need said income to keep all the "balls in the air", so to speak. Not falling into the debt trap, or at least keeping debt reasonable, is simply a way to retain the inherent power you have as an autonomous being.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#104
post #96

Money is not about peer acceptance, power, or "having nice things". Money is freedom. This only dawned on me when I had absolutely nothing. Without money, you can't really do anything, all your choices have been taken from you. As you start accumulating money, more and more doors open up, and you are increasingly free to do what you like. Money is, almost by definition, the abstraction of means. There's probably an u…

http://www.lomography.com/magazine/lifestyle/2011/10/06/stev... I've seen that picture and story referenced many times as an example of a pure drive that isn't influenced by money. That it was "all you need". At the time Steve Jobs was already a multi, multi-millionaire (from the IPO of Apple in 1980 he was worth some $200 million). He had the freedom to never worry about basic needs, could travel the world at his le…

Seeing that photo all the time makes me cringe a bit, after all this was the guy who ordered this: http://cdn0.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/7158603/Steve_jo...

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#105
Great idea. Really, sincerely - I love it. All the conversations I have with people considering entrepreneurship start with "what are your goals... ok, what are your real goals." Goal clarification is incredibly important.

I did have a problem with almost all of the rest of the article though - the Author dismisses offhandedly many, many goals which are quite legitimate, and tries to build a case that money is not really necessary for most of the things people try to achieve. Maybe that's true, but there are plenty of cases where money is important:

- I know several "effective altruists" [1], who work hard to make the most amount of money, and donate as much of it to charity as possible. This is to help other people, not to achieve a personal sense of worth, and very much depends on making as much money as possible.

- People who want the freedom of not having to work, but don't yet know what they could do that won't feel like work. It's always a nice sentiment to try and work at something which you love doing, and is even possible in many cases... but ask many 25 year olds what kind of work they'd still enjoy doing at 40, and not many will be able to tell you for sure.

etc.

[1]: See e.g. http://80000hours.org/

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#106
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having started a family a year ago, I wonder what kind of capital is necessary to start a family is? For diapers? Or do people really want to save up for college when they have barely left college themselves? Until age 3, a child doesn't even need a dedicated room, so basically any apt suitable for 2 people will do. Disclaimer: I'm in Austria, maybe it's easier here.

Its almost certainly easier there, since you guys have, socialized medicine, cheaper education, affordable housing, etc. All of the things we're terrible at here in the US basically. Most people want to own a home, which in the SF area will be 500k or so just for a reasonable place. Then you have to pay a ton of money for health insurance, then you pay a ton to educate them, have a babysitter, etc.

Not sure about the affordable housing. From what I've read, in many parts of Europe (for example in Germany), life-long renting is very common. In many other places (where the rental market isn't as developed or where people believe that they "must" own the property they live in), for many it takes a 30-year mortgage to buy a flat. Having said that, I don't know how the situation looks in Austria in particular.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#107

When I worked on Wall Street, it was common to have a "number" in mind -- a level of wealth one wanted to earn, after which one would retire. By way of contrast, I got out after I'd only worked there about 5 years, with enough savings to support me for only a few more. Frankly, I wish I'd stuck with it and solved the "earning money" problem for life for once and for all. I.e., while I'm generally in agreement with th…

(throwaway account) I have been working for 10 years as a software developer and manager of software development teams for a large investment bank. When I got started, and for the first 5 years or so, I thought that I could earn enough to save up and "solve the 'earning money' problem" doing this. Now, I don't think that's possible on this track. I thought I'd get there in the beginning because I was doing very well…

well said, thanks for posting

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#108
post #96

Money is not about peer acceptance, power, or "having nice things". Money is freedom. This only dawned on me when I had absolutely nothing. Without money, you can't really do anything, all your choices have been taken from you. As you start accumulating money, more and more doors open up, and you are increasingly free to do what you like. Money is, almost by definition, the abstraction of means. There's probably an u…

I read that the upper cap is a mere $67,500 per annum. An income level above this amount, say double, does not double your happiness.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#109
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Money is a conflation of two social processes or decisions: > a. Who gets to have private jets and get into hot nightclubs. > b. Who gets to build things of importance to the world. No, its not. Those two are two of the many aspects of the one thing that money is a determinant for: power. Or, "who gets to do what they want to do". "Have private jets and get into hot nightclubs" is just one of things people might wa…

People with money can do it if they want to. Other people have to try real hard. Want to have a nightclub lifestyle - become a bouncer/dancer. Want to live on private yatch - get a job on a somebody else's yatch(and imagine you are living your dream). Want to change the world - become a scientist and hope you get work on your topic of interest( or make the work that you get your topic of interest).

> Other people have to try real hard. Want to have a nightclub lifestyle - become a bouncer/dancer.

That's not the same "nightclub lifestyle" as a nightclub patron.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#110
post #97
post #96

Money is not about peer acceptance, power, or "having nice things". Money is freedom. This only dawned on me when I had absolutely nothing. Without money, you can't really do anything, all your choices have been taken from you. As you start accumulating money, more and more doors open up, and you are increasingly free to do what you like. Money is, almost by definition, the abstraction of means. There's probably an u…

This rings really true. It makes me sad when high income earners don't understand this, and live at or above their means. Instead of living below your means and stress free, many people get trapped in a sick consumerist loop where they spend at their means and/or take on debt. The enlightened know that the stress reduction of never having money problems is far better than living a life of maximum comfort/extravagance…

> The enlightened know that the stress reduction of never having money problems is far better than living a life of maximum comfort/extravagance.

Sound advice. Even though my income has happily grown over the past year, I’m trying to keep my value perception of money as close as possible to where it was when I was a poor student, to maintain my sanity as much as anything else.

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