"Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't • Hacker News Board

Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#101

Post by tomku » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 2:48 PM UTC

trek wrote: post #78

joshstrange wrote: post #27

Trek is making a huge mistake IMHO. As a developer I can think of nothing more helpful than to get a "steam-of-consciousness" excerpt from our users. This is something no analytics package can tell you, if you want to make your "product" easy to use then this is the exact feedback you need. Delverworld was outlining the various pitfalls of getting started with ember.js and a core contributor shrugs it off because he…

I have admitted that, publicly, very often, in other topics on discuss.emberjs.com, on websites, on twitter, on videos, and elsewhere. It's no secret I'd like to improve the documentation for Ember.js and I'm already well aware of the places that people are facing difficulty right now. There's work, if people spent a moment reading the top topics in the forum, on a getting started guide with a direct call for feedbac…

I truly believe that you had good intentions posting that, but what you said makes it look like you're prioritizing being the civility police higher than helping a frustrated user.

Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#102

Post by robotmay » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 2:49 PM UTC

Does anyone know of a JS framework which plays nicely with Server Sent Events or WebSockets? I've tried pretty much everything so far, and it's always a colossal hack to implement, as none of them seem to have been built with anything other than CRUD in mind.

Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#103

Post by stevewilhelm » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 2:50 PM UTC

wycats wrote: post #80

I totally agree that our getting started story could be much better. In fact, it's our primary focus as we move towards 1.0. Specifically: * We're actively working on a Getting Started Guide with live examples that walks the user through building a new application from scratch. * We're continuing to improve our guides to talk through areas that might be confusing for new developers, like the naming conventions[1] we…

It would be really great if there was a well documented example application similar to Discourse's topic list, that had a: a search term populate (populate not filter) the topic list and the ability sort the topics by clicking on the column headers.

I would build it myself, but I personally haven't been able to become proficient enough with Ember (in the admittedly limited amount of time I have tried mastering it) to do so.

Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#104

Post by kalms » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 2:51 PM UTC

trek wrote: post #78

joshstrange wrote: post #27

Trek is making a huge mistake IMHO. As a developer I can think of nothing more helpful than to get a "steam-of-consciousness" excerpt from our users. This is something no analytics package can tell you, if you want to make your "product" easy to use then this is the exact feedback you need. Delverworld was outlining the various pitfalls of getting started with ember.js and a core contributor shrugs it off because he…

I have admitted that, publicly, very often, in other topics on discuss.emberjs.com, on websites, on twitter, on videos, and elsewhere. It's no secret I'd like to improve the documentation for Ember.js and I'm already well aware of the places that people are facing difficulty right now. There's work, if people spent a moment reading the top topics in the forum, on a getting started guide with a direct call for feedbac…

Just don't let it get to you. You seem like a proud person, which can be a great thing in itself, but this is not an attack on you personally. You've done great things. Acknowledge him and quietly move on.

Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#105

Post by ryan_f » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 2:53 PM UTC

Isn't all of this just blown out of proportion? Why not focus on how to help improve ember.js than one person's response? Even if that person contributes to the documentation and to the project. Get over it already.

Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#106

Post by jtms » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 2:53 PM UTC

spellboots wrote: post #87

trek wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have admitted that, publicly, very often, in other topics on discuss.emberjs.com, on websites, on twitter, on videos, and elsewhere. It's no secret I'd like to improve the documentation for Ember.js and I'm already well aware of the places that people are facing difficulty right now. There's work, if people spent a moment reading the top topics in the forum, on a getting started guide with a direct call for feedbac…

I see what you're saying, and it is a fair attitude. The problem is that I think others disagree on your definition of civility; for example I am of the opinion that the post was perfectly civil, and I think others would tend to agree. You are of course free to set your own standards in your own community, however I think it would serve you well to recognize that the implied standards you are setting are extremely, e…

Nailed it.

Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#107

Post by Uchikoma » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 2:54 PM UTC

trek wrote: post #78

joshstrange wrote: post #27

Trek is making a huge mistake IMHO. As a developer I can think of nothing more helpful than to get a "steam-of-consciousness" excerpt from our users. This is something no analytics package can tell you, if you want to make your "product" easy to use then this is the exact feedback you need. Delverworld was outlining the various pitfalls of getting started with ember.js and a core contributor shrugs it off because he…

I have admitted that, publicly, very often, in other topics on discuss.emberjs.com, on websites, on twitter, on videos, and elsewhere. It's no secret I'd like to improve the documentation for Ember.js and I'm already well aware of the places that people are facing difficulty right now. There's work, if people spent a moment reading the top topics in the forum, on a getting started guide with a direct call for feedbac…

You're reply and hand waving here is worse then your comment there.

Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#108

Post by knowtheory » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 2:55 PM UTC

wycats wrote: post #95

trolley wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the response that should have been made on OP's original thread in the first place (and I do see you've xposted it there now).

Totally agree. The OP posted at 4:05 a.m., when I was very much asleep. I've been a little bit less responsive this week in general as I've been participating in TAG[1] this week. I'm very sorry that our project came across as uncaring. [1] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/

Should anyone doubt it, wycats & the ember team certainly do care a great deal about their users. The Ember team and Backbone team have differing philosophies about client side development, but wycats, tomdale and the rest of the crew are smart guys trying to do the right thing.

Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#109

Post by michaelwww » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 2:56 PM UTC

trek wrote: post #78

joshstrange wrote: post #27

Trek is making a huge mistake IMHO. As a developer I can think of nothing more helpful than to get a "steam-of-consciousness" excerpt from our users. This is something no analytics package can tell you, if you want to make your "product" easy to use then this is the exact feedback you need. Delverworld was outlining the various pitfalls of getting started with ember.js and a core contributor shrugs it off because he…

I have admitted that, publicly, very often, in other topics on discuss.emberjs.com, on websites, on twitter, on videos, and elsewhere. It's no secret I'd like to improve the documentation for Ember.js and I'm already well aware of the places that people are facing difficulty right now. There's work, if people spent a moment reading the top topics in the forum, on a getting started guide with a direct call for feedbac…

No response would have been better, at least until you are in a lighter mood. That's a rule I try to follow.

Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#110

Post by paulhauggis » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 2:59 PM UTC

brazzy wrote: post #96

trek wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have admitted that, publicly, very often, in other topics on discuss.emberjs.com, on websites, on twitter, on videos, and elsewhere. It's no secret I'd like to improve the documentation for Ember.js and I'm already well aware of the places that people are facing difficulty right now. There's work, if people spent a moment reading the top topics in the forum, on a getting started guide with a direct call for feedbac…

Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. You get some very detailed actionable feedback and flat out refuse to engage with it because it contains some mild sarcasm? No, obviously you would not like to help unless it's 100% on your terms, and you're not even telling which terms they are. Which is not very helpful at all and, in fact, showing a considerable degree of dickitude.

I have been following the ember.js community for awhile and also trek.

It's this attitude that makes me never want to use ember.js. If you check out his twitter account, you can see countless battles with new people just getting into ember.

If you want someone to use your framework, it shouldn't be a verbal battle of passive aggressiveness and other childish antics.

He is doing a disservice to the community and the framework.