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Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

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Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#101

Post by [deleted] »

dhimes wrote: post #82
Retric wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exponential growth in some areas. I don't think peoples lifestyles have changed all that much in the last 30 years. In 1982 you could point to computers, networks, and cellphones and say these are going to get far more popular. But, medicine, car millage, and battery power while improved are not that much better. PS: What's so striking to me is how little science fiction has changed over that time span.

Agree on sci-fi, but medical imaging has really been born in the last 30 years and may prove to be a game-changer in diagnosis and localized treatments over the next 70. Also, the invention of PCR techniques allow much better testing and drug development. So I think we'll look back 70 years from now and make the same claim about medicine.

[deleted]

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#102

Post by [deleted] »

shanelja wrote: post #2

I hadn't thought of these individual achievements as being that big until I saw them all together in one place and now I can say that this has truly been a breakthrough year all across the technology sector. Every year we seem to be accelerating our speed of development when it comes to technology, I'm only 19 and in my life I've seen us go from 56kb/s internet to 1gb/s internet, go from the rare NASA launch to regul…

[deleted]

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#103

Post by jimbokun »

cwp wrote: post #74
pretoriusB wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those things go hand in hand. Ideally, you can't make money without improving human life in exchange. That's ideology. Specifically, an Adam Smith style ideology. You can very well make money without improving human life in exchange. Heck, you make tons of money without improving human life. Like being an arms dealer. Or an African warlord. Or a crack dealer. Or a huge money seeking corporation selling sugar water.…

Well, our best understanding of what generates wealth is that it comes from trade. Trade involves two parties exchanging resources for their mutual benefit. Adam Smith was one of the first to write about this, and yes, he thought that trade and wealth for all was a good thing. > You can very well make money without improving human life in exchange Notice that I said "ideally," and that all the counter-examples you gi…

"The Belgians wouldn't be able to get away with that today."

You're right. Today, it's probably only the U.S. that can get away with such behavior.

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#104

Post by jacquesm »

berntb wrote: post #100
jacquesm wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's simply because I still benefit from those crimes even today.

OK... So, only crimes done by a corporation -- not a state. And the crimes can be 600 years old, no statute of limitations!! And there is no bookkeeping for boons the corporation(s) did for victims (industrialization etc etc etc). Probably billions of identifiable people (Mongols in China, people in Argentina where they slaughtered the locals, etc) enjoy a better life from atrocities the last 600 years. But those tha…

I'm not beating myself up over it. I just notice that there is a debt, and a substantial one and that it is unlikely to be paid back.

And these things are still happening today, for instance this man that decided to speak out against the royal Dutch Shell oil company and got murdered for that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Saro-Wiwa

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#105

Post by corporalagumbo »

pretoriusB wrote: post #22
cwp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"development for development's sake"? Development doesn't happen for its own sake. It's about improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering. If you had to carry water a few miles each day, or gather firewood to keep you warm in the winter or were infected by tuberculosis, you might welcome a little development. And sure, with great power comes great responsibility. But we've managed to avoid catastrop…

> "development for development's sake"? Development doesn't happen for its own sake. It's about improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering. No, it's not. It's mostly about making money. No business cares about "improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering" (they might pay lip service to that on their brochures though). Shareholders don't care about "alleviating suffering", only abo…

The capitalist system is continually evolving and eliminating inefficiencies which allow people to profit from harming others. The trend has been strongly towards better controls to prevent businesses from externalising costs to the detriment of society, these controls have in turned spurred innovation which has resulted in cleaner, better, more productive technology benefitting everyone. Just like going around beating people up and stealing their wallets is no longer a viable road to financial success, businesses can no longer expect to profit from dumping harmful chemicals into waterways. The range of options for profit are continually being tightened and focussed exclusively in the realm of mutual benefit.

We are, hopefully, on the verge of sensible legislation to prevent businesses and individuals externalising the costs of greenhouse gases too, and so spur healthy innovation in that most important area, and in so doing securing the future habitability of the planet - hopefully once we do so your objections to capitalism will begin to fade.

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#106

Post by meric »

josteink wrote: post #36

Rounded corners being worth 1 billion dollars in patent-lawsuits evidently not among them. Pantent-trolling being more profitable the producting neither. Seriously. We have come a so far in technology the last decades. Things we would consider science fiction or maybe even ipmossible ten years ago is every-day stuff now. And our "tech leaders" (and I say that with the most disrespect possible) are now busy engaging i…

"tech" a hundred years ago was the beginnings of the aviation sector you see today. What you're seeing now is "tech" moving away from the _____ sector (the one HN belongs to) into to the _____ sector (the one with brain-machine interfaces as well as brain enhancing implants).

So I agree with you, 2012 may well be the year the technology sector of 2011 is not the technology sector of 2012.

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#107

Post by berntb »

jacquesm wrote: post #104
berntb wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK... So, only crimes done by a corporation -- not a state. And the crimes can be 600 years old, no statute of limitations!! And there is no bookkeeping for boons the corporation(s) did for victims (industrialization etc etc etc). Probably billions of identifiable people (Mongols in China, people in Argentina where they slaughtered the locals, etc) enjoy a better life from atrocities the last 600 years. But those tha…

I'm not beating myself up over it. I just notice that there is a debt, and a substantial one and that it is unlikely to be paid back. And these things are still happening today, for instance this man that decided to speak out against the royal Dutch Shell oil company and got murdered for that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Saro-Wiwa

You just ignored 90+% of what I wrote as answers to your strange opinions. Sigh... OK.

Wiki page says "outspoken critic of the Nigerian government ... hanged in 1995 by the military government"

1995 is not "today" -- and the whole execution might even have been done by the military dictatorship, without Shell even directly asking them to do it. (From what I've read about Nigeria, this doesn't seem unlikely.)

If Shell was involved (why would they murder internationally known critics -- the resulting sh-t storm is obvious) -- was any higher up Shell people involved?

It is ridiculous how you limit your criticism to corporations. Any of the tyrants worth his own weight in human ears have done worse than most any corporation since 1995.

I think I'm being trolled.

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#108

Post by Klinky »

berntb wrote: post #91
Klinky wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that you can imagine hypothetical situations where the oppressed was the oppressor, or was oppressed by others, doesn't excuse the actions taken by their actual oppressor. "...us Humans are a vicious bunch" is merely a statement, not a valid excuse.

>>us Humans are a vicious bunch" is merely a statement, not a valid excuse. If I understand your position: 1. Occupation, slavery and aggression were parts of most/many historic societies. 2. Just because a behaviour is universal among human societies at the time doesn't stop you from judging a subset of the societies that committed them. (I seldom see condemnation of Arab slavery for sexual purposes etc.) 3. As a bi…

I made no mention of any specific societies or countries. I was merely stating that "everyone is doing it" or "they might do it to us, so we should do it to them first" are not really valid excuses.

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#109

Post by berntb »

Klinky wrote: post #108
berntb wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>us Humans are a vicious bunch" is merely a statement, not a valid excuse. If I understand your position: 1. Occupation, slavery and aggression were parts of most/many historic societies. 2. Just because a behaviour is universal among human societies at the time doesn't stop you from judging a subset of the societies that committed them. (I seldom see condemnation of Arab slavery for sexual purposes etc.) 3. As a bi…

I made no mention of any specific societies or countries. I was merely stating that "everyone is doing it" or "they might do it to us, so we should do it to them first" are not really valid excuses.

>>"everyone is doing it" or "they might do it to us, so we should do it to them first" are not really valid excuses.

Not a relevant answer to what I wrote.

I noted, amongst others, that the atrocities in question were SOP (Standard Operation Procedure) of the non-modern times. So no (heart felt, at least) excuses were generally needed...

Edit: Please don't do as others here and insist on judging (just the) western society of X centuries ago after our present moral standards. I'm misanthropic enough.

(I'm sorry if I addressed that comment to the wrong recipient. It seemed you were continuing the argument from previous comments.)

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#110

Post by jacquesm »

berntb wrote: post #107
jacquesm wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not beating myself up over it. I just notice that there is a debt, and a substantial one and that it is unlikely to be paid back. And these things are still happening today, for instance this man that decided to speak out against the royal Dutch Shell oil company and got murdered for that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Saro-Wiwa

You just ignored 90+% of what I wrote as answers to your strange opinions. Sigh... OK. Wiki page says " outspoken critic of the Nigerian government ... hanged in 1995 by the military government " 1995 is not "today" -- and the whole execution might even have been done by the military dictatorship, without Shell even directly asking them to do it. (From what I've read about Nigeria, this doesn't seem unlikely.) If She…

"Initially as spokesperson, and then as President, of the Movement for the Survival of the Ogoni People (MOSOP), Saro-Wiwa led a nonviolent campaign against environmental degradation of the land and waters of Ogoniland by the operations of the multinational petroleum industry, especially the Royal Dutch Shell company. He was also an outspoken critic of the Nigerian government, which he viewed as reluctant to enforce environmental regulations on the foreign petroleum companies operating in the area."

And there was an international shitstorm regarding this which is how I came to know about it. Shell was implicated as having leaned on the Nigerian government to get rid of this troublemaker which they promptly did.

Bits like "At least two witnesses who testified that Saro-Wiwa was involved in the murders of the Ogoni elders later recanted, stating that they had been bribed with money and offers of jobs with Shell to give false testimony – in the presence of Shell’s lawyer." in the wikipedia article should hopefully convince you of that.

Really, I feel a bit insulted by your references to being trolled, it's not as if I'm the new guy around here. Feel free to disagree with me but calling names is really bad form.

Shell did what they did because they thought they could get away with it.

1995 is today enough that I remember clearly reading about this in the papers, and about many other big oil crimes since then. I purposefully selected something that should clearly register as an outrage on your spectrum and the only thing you bring up to defend it is that it wasn't 'today'. There are many more recent crimes by large corporations but this one stood out for me.

And no, I don't limit my criticism to corporations but if you look back a bit then you'll notice that this thread started about corporations so that is the topic.

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