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Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking

diegobasch.com

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Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking

#101

Post by jack-r-abbit »

bsg75 wrote: post #88
jack-r-abbit wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just to clarify, I was not advocating prison like barriers. I don't know the name of the type glass that is not bullet proof, per se, but even when penetrated with a bullet it still would not allow entry. I've seen glass that has the criss-cross wires in it that is not bullet proof, but the wires make it very difficult to smash out/though. Obviously I don't know the specifics of exactly how he gained entry other than…

> just to clarify, I was not advocating prison like barriers Nor did I think you were, but added due to other comments I have seen in the media. What I did not add / explain in my prior post is that one LEO salary per school (a M-F 7A-3P job) is both something that could be implemented very quickly, without the time and costs associated with reinforcing schools.

haha... I should have also clarified that I did not think you thought that. But your comment made me think of my own comment and it seemed fitting to acknowledge it. And agreed about the on-site LEO. I think both are worthy. Particularly if a school has multiple entry points and/or is large. One LEO may not be enough if entry is through an unsecured door across campus.

Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking

#102

Post by boboblong »

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #52
wonderzombie wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many items in the Bill of Rights are far more nuanced than this absolutist interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. For one thing, there are multiple restrictions on freedom of speech. Maybe you think those oughtn't exist, but we're talking about the status quo, not ideal worlds. This is not to mention the idea that there are multiple ways to adjudicate whether this means "all guns" or "some guns," since there's quite a…

True. It is kind of interesting how often the "well-regulated" part is overlooked. To regulate something is to control it. So... there is that.

When the second amendment was written, "well-regulated" essentially meant "properly functioning".

Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking

#103

Post by [deleted] »

diego wrote: post #59
grecy wrote: post #44

Not once does the author dare to compare homicide rates to other developed countries. You're almost twice as likely to be killed by a gun because you live in the United States vs. the next developed country (Finland). You're 2.6 times as likely to be killed than the next country, Canada. Something is very wrong here. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona...

Author here, see my previous post plotting homicides vs gun ownership across countries: http://diegobasch.com/homicides-vs-gun-ownership Yes, the average American (not necessarily you, it varies a lot depending on where you live) is more likely to be killed by a gun than the average person in Finland. That is completely irrelevant to my post. It's not a competition among countries, it's about making the US better. "D…

[deleted]

Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking

#104

Post by Bakkot »

Tycho wrote: post #92

For example, it’s feasible that a 100% tax on the price of cigarettes would save thousands of lives ever year. Why is this not attempted? Probably because the special interest group that controls tobacco sales is powerful enough to stop it. Nothing to do with liberty, the constitution or anything...

... I'm sorry, how levying taxes against the Constitution?

Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking

#105

Post by elteto »

I have read very vocal arguments from both sides here, and only a handful of well reasoned, balanced ones. It is ironic that we criticize Washington for their petty politics yet we are as one-sided and partisan as they are. We are not going to solve the gun problem by just restricting access to specific weapons. It baffles me that almost no one mentions better healthcare as a plausible solution. If these kids can be spotted and given access to quality treatment we might have a significant impact on their lives for the better, and if we don't, then well at least there is a paper trail that would prevent them from buying guns legally. We can't make the problem disappear just by removing guns from the equation, there has to be a multi-pronged solution that covers social, cultural and legal issues.

Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking

#106

Post by purephase »

hga wrote: post #80
purephase wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of higher-yield weapons like bombs, guns are the fastest, lightest and easiest-to-use methods for murdering the most number of people in the shortest amount of time. It seems insane to me (as a Canadian citizen) that the pro-gun folks continue to peddle that safety comes from increasing the number of "responsible" carriers. Here are the issues that I see with this: 1. The assumption that all gun users are tra…

Errr, you're ignoring the highest casualty mass murders, at least in the US, which were done by arson. Maybe not "fastest", but otherwise very "competitive" with firearms. I can't track a list down, but in a recent discussion someone mentioned counting something like 19 out of the top 20 mass murders in the US.

But arson has been largely addressed in western countries by legislation. Building and fire codes are strong, positive examples that federal and/or state legislation saves lives (as I'm not a US citizen, I'm not sure where juridiction lies).

Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking

#107

Post by jbattle »

hga wrote: post #95
Anechoic wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how rare are fires in schools? We extensively prepare for those Teachers/staff prepare for those by knowing how to evacuate students from the schools and calling 911. They aren't expected to actually fight fires, aside from using a fire extinguisher. "Readily available" can be addressed by concealed handguns that aren't too easy to get to; you might have to give an attacker a "first bite of the apple" in favor of mak…

Surely the scale of a single active shooter matches something like using a fire extinguisher vs. "fighting a fire". As for "effective and safe", so you'd think, and so did I (who started shooting in 1st grade in 1967 (sic)), but civilians with little or no training have demonstrated an amazing ability to responsibly use firearms in self-defense. Police in general are not useful comparisons. They're required by their…

If the NYPD can't get it right, what's the chances of the Oswego IL school district getting it right? And each of the other ~100K public schools in the US?

Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking

#108

Post by webwright »

Tycho wrote: post #92

For example, it’s feasible that a 100% tax on the price of cigarettes would save thousands of lives ever year. Why is this not attempted? Probably because the special interest group that controls tobacco sales is powerful enough to stop it. Nothing to do with liberty, the constitution or anything...

50,000 deaths are attributed to second hand smoke every year... That's 5X the homicide rate and isn't remotely related to liberty (children and many workers don't have the freedom to avoid 2nd hand smoke). I personally would love to have the freedom not to subsidize the health care costs of millions of smokers.

Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking

#109

Post by grecy »

jbattle wrote: post #99
grecy wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is because America was founded by violence, and the "I'll shoot you if you try to take what's mine" mentality that continues to this day. It's not a peaceful place.

Sorry - that's a pretty silly argument. Countries that formed through some form of peaceful negotiated settlement exist, but most formed either through conquest, revolution, or through an imposed partition. I don't have numbers on this, but running through examples in my head, especially for the developed countries I'm familiar with, I can only think of a handful. I'm not sure what you have in mind when you say "foun…

Australia had neither a War of Independence, nor a Civil War.

Fun Fact: Most Australian's don't know the name of the first Prime Minister because it was so uneventful. A bunch of people sat down, signed some papers, and Australia was founded as a country.

Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking

#110

Post by brudgers »

I searched for data, and found out that in the past 30 years, 543 people have been killed in 70 mass shootings. That’s an average of 18 deaths per year. For comparison, three times as many die from lightning strikes....

Mass killings are as inevitable as lightning deaths

There are public policies which deal with lightning risk, e.g. formal implementation of the 30-30 rule for sports facilities.

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