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Hunter-gatherers introduced fish to a mountain lake 7000 years ago

newscientist.com

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Re: Hunter-gatherers introduced fish to a mountain lake 7000 years ago

#101

Post by nephihaha »

hnlmorg wrote: post #51
iefbr14 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fish eggs often travel long distances by sticking to the feathers or legs of waterfowl I have been told at school long ago.

I’ve wondered if natural phenomena like tornadoes could carry fish eggs those kinds of distances. Or even just carry the eggs into the clouds, to be rained down large distances away.

Fish falls or fafrotskies are well documented, and have been filmed. A weird phenomenon, but very real.

The animals dropped tend to be fish or frogs.

Re: Hunter-gatherers introduced fish to a mountain lake 7000 years ago

#102

Post by nephihaha »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #86
soperj wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did wooden equipment not whither away in 7000 years?

In the peat bogs on Skye where I grew up and where people still cut peat for fuel, you often see the remains of silver birch trees that must have grown a couple of thousand years ago. They're often so well-preserved that not only can you clearly see the markings on the bark but you can sometimes make out the rings in the wood. I remember my dad pulling out a piece that was so well preserved you could see where deer h…

Chunnaic mi sin.

Re: Hunter-gatherers introduced fish to a mountain lake 7000 years ago

#103

Post by lacunary »

austin-cheney wrote: post #77
giancarlostoro wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Birds can drop fish after they've captured them. Not longer than a year now, we were visiting my wife's family, and me and my father in law got to Walmart there was a dead fish in the front, but when we mentioned it to my wife who got there before us (separate cars) she said it was struggling for life when they saw it, I don't think there was a lake nearby enough, but I wouldn't be surprised if birds have accidentall…

More likely is that birds move fish between bodies of water because of fish eggs they carry on their bodies. This is how most bodies of water become supremely populated in Texas. In Texas all ground water sources, other than 1 lake on the far east side, are created by people in recent decades and almost all of these bodies are full of fish that did not get there on their own.

the streams aren't man-made and have tons of native fish species that also live in the impoundments now

Re: Hunter-gatherers introduced fish to a mountain lake 7000 years ago

#104

Post by lukan »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #73
giancarlostoro wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Birds can drop fish after they've captured them. Not longer than a year now, we were visiting my wife's family, and me and my father in law got to Walmart there was a dead fish in the front, but when we mentioned it to my wife who got there before us (separate cars) she said it was struggling for life when they saw it, I don't think there was a lake nearby enough, but I wouldn't be surprised if birds have accidentall…

Yeah, but at least two live fish (a male and female) being dropped into the same remote lake, then finding each other at spawning time seems increasing implausible. Never say never, but ... Apparently some fish species do have small sticky eggs that can stick to the legs of water fowl, or even (with very small probability) pass through them intact, so this seems much more likely. Maybe a group of ducks feeding in one…

"Yeah, but at least two live fish (a male and female) being dropped into the same remote lake, then finding each other at spawning time seems increasing implausible. Never say never, but ..."

It just needs to be one pregnant fish. (or many eggs)

Re: Hunter-gatherers introduced fish to a mountain lake 7000 years ago

#105

Post by nephihaha »

Can I offer some further explanations?

* Accidental human seeding. Rather than bringing a full grown fish up to a lake, is it possible that the eggs could have been in waterskins/containers and when the humans refilled them, the eggs washed out?

* What about eels? Eels can travel across land in damp conditions (and Norway is damp much of the time). Could they take other fish eggs with them?

Re: Hunter-gatherers introduced fish to a mountain lake 7000 years ago

#106

Post by robbiep »

lukan wrote: post #104
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but at least two live fish (a male and female) being dropped into the same remote lake, then finding each other at spawning time seems increasing implausible. Never say never, but ... Apparently some fish species do have small sticky eggs that can stick to the legs of water fowl, or even (with very small probability) pass through them intact, so this seems much more likely. Maybe a group of ducks feeding in one…

"Yeah, but at least two live fish (a male and female) being dropped into the same remote lake, then finding each other at spawning time seems increasing implausible. Never say never, but ..." It just needs to be one pregnant fish. (or many eggs)

To the best of my knowledge fish eggs are fertilised outside the body

Re: Hunter-gatherers introduced fish to a mountain lake 7000 years ago

#107

Post by [deleted] »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #73
giancarlostoro wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Birds can drop fish after they've captured them. Not longer than a year now, we were visiting my wife's family, and me and my father in law got to Walmart there was a dead fish in the front, but when we mentioned it to my wife who got there before us (separate cars) she said it was struggling for life when they saw it, I don't think there was a lake nearby enough, but I wouldn't be surprised if birds have accidentall…

Yeah, but at least two live fish (a male and female) being dropped into the same remote lake, then finding each other at spawning time seems increasing implausible. Never say never, but ... Apparently some fish species do have small sticky eggs that can stick to the legs of water fowl, or even (with very small probability) pass through them intact, so this seems much more likely. Maybe a group of ducks feeding in one…

[deleted]

Re: Hunter-gatherers introduced fish to a mountain lake 7000 years ago

#110

Post by ofalkaed »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #42
m463 wrote: post #2

> That is the only possible explanation for how fish could have populated isolated mountain lakes isn't that a common question? "How do fish appear in landlocked lakes/ponds/etc"? After digging a pond and letting it fill with rainwater/groundwater, fish appear. I don't think its because people carried them there. (don't really know the common answer though)

Birds can drop fish after they've captured them. Not longer than a year now, we were visiting my wife's family, and me and my father in law got to Walmart there was a dead fish in the front, but when we mentioned it to my wife who got there before us (separate cars) she said it was struggling for life when they saw it, I don't think there was a lake nearby enough, but I wouldn't be surprised if birds have accidentall…

Interestingly, it is not always the case that birds can drop what they catch. I never knew this until I watched an eagle struggle to shore after it caught a fish that turned out to be too large for it to fly off with or do what it needed to do to be able to release the fish until it got to land. I have no idea about the swimming ability of an eagle but they certainly can't swim when they have a large fish in their claws, it was quite the struggle for that eagle to get to shore.

https://www.raptorresource.org/2021/01/22/racheting-raptor-t...

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