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Decker, a platform that builds on the legacy of Hypercard and classic macOS

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Re: Decker, a platform that builds on the legacy of Hypercard and classic macOS

#101

Post by zahlman »

zahlman wrote: post #69
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of these modern HyperCard reinterpretations get stuck on the black-and-white aesthetics of the original. That's cool, but it limits how broadly appealing they become. Even back when HyperCard was relevant, Apple's inability to properly introduce color as a first-class feature was what effectively killed the product. A few years ago, I think there would have been a market for a HyperCard-inspired tool that targe…

You said it well. The aesthetic is so much more about building your project within the project itself (like what Jupyter and Marimo did for Python, but more so because you also lay out GUI this way), having built-in components, designing around very simple "multimedia" integrations (push a button and a sound plays! With a single command in the event handler!) etc. than about any of the technical limitations. To me, a…

> IDLE except it didn't suck.

Hmm, I put that poorly, and can't edit now. I'm really thinking more about the entire Tkinter stack, and the way that IDLE is used both to demonstrate it and to provide a way to edit the Python code needed to interact with it.

Re: Decker, a platform that builds on the legacy of Hypercard and classic macOS

#103

Post by jandrese »

RodgerTheGreat wrote: post #99
jandrese wrote: post #98

It's kind of a shame this uses its own, probably more powerful, language instead of HyperTalk. HyperTalk is one of the most accessible languages for beginners I've ever seen. Sure it was primitive and had somewhat weak data organization capabilities, but if you're like 6 it's pretty incredible for your experience to be: 1. Open a blank script 2. Drag a field on the screen and name it "myname" 3. Drag a button on the…

In Decker, most of this example would be similar. The button's default script template would be: on click do end And filling it in with an equivalent script would be something like: on click do myname.text:alert["What is your name?" "string"] end There is slightly more "programming-language-like" punctuation to Lil than HyperTalk, but simple examples are still simple, and in my opinion having first-class collections…

Your example needs to add the part where you put that string into a card field so people can see their work.

But your example also includes a period, a colon, square brackets, and a space where someone might expect a comma. It's going to look a lot more daunting to a first time programmer. Simply knowing when to use a period vs. the colon is not going to be obvious.

Re: Decker, a platform that builds on the legacy of Hypercard and classic macOS

#104

Post by RodgerTheGreat »

jandrese wrote: post #103
RodgerTheGreat wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Decker, most of this example would be similar. The button's default script template would be: on click do end And filling it in with an equivalent script would be something like: on click do myname.text:alert["What is your name?" "string"] end There is slightly more "programming-language-like" punctuation to Lil than HyperTalk, but simple examples are still simple, and in my opinion having first-class collections…

Your example needs to add the part where you put that string into a card field so people can see their work. But your example also includes a period, a colon, square brackets, and a space where someone might expect a comma. It's going to look a lot more daunting to a first time programmer. Simply knowing when to use a period vs. the colon is not going to be obvious.

The alert[] function prompts the user for input. The second "string" argument indicates the prompt will ask for a string, and return it. (alert[] can also ask for other datatypes, like a yes/no "boolean" prompt or a multi-choice selection from a list or dictionary of options.)

The colon (read aloud as "becomes" or "gets") is Lil's assignment operator. That single line,

    myname.text:alert["What is your name?" "string"]
prompts for input and then stores the result in a card field. If you wish, you could also write it as:

    on click do
     name:alert["What is your name?" "string"]
     myname.text:name
    end
Learning the syntax for calling functions is partially scaffolded by the "Action..." dialog that button widgets offer for constructing simple button scripts with a GUI:

    on click do
     go["Next" "BoxIn"]
     play["sosumi"]
    end
Users can rely on the system to write code for them initially, and then slowly dip their toes into more complex compositions. Whereas HyperTalk has custom syntax for almost every programming construct and built-in function or feature, the Lil grammar is simple and uniform. Where symbols appear, they have a single meaning. Decker's "Listener" REPL allows the user to have a back-and-forth "conversation" with the Lil interpreter and see responses juxtaposed with their questions, versus the HyperCard "message box" which shows only user input or a single system response.

Ultimately, every programming language does require some degree of handholding and learning, and that's why Decker comes with dozens of example decks to take apart and study. The user community has also furnished some truly fantastic interactive tutorials:

https://ahmwma.itch.io/phield-notes

Re: Decker, a platform that builds on the legacy of Hypercard and classic macOS

#105

Post by swiftcoder »

chrisweekly wrote: post #87
swiftcoder wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SQLite doesn’t have a built-in user interface. The value of something like FileMaker isn’t the underlying storage mechanism, it’s the WYSIWYG user interface building that lets you quickly build custom apps around it

(sigh) I was replying to: >"If you’re a small shop and have a need for a little database, what do you use?" not the rest of the comment. mea culpa for not quoting that specific Q. Edit: as for the rest of it, I love using Obsidian for ~everything. It's not a database, but it does support queries and rendering of tabular data, which meets all my admittedly modest needs. (if a true db is required, some ppl like logseq…

Historically the kind of shop that wants a FileMaker/Access replacement does not really want to develop software from scratch. I guess vibe coding may change that equation these days

Re: Decker, a platform that builds on the legacy of Hypercard and classic macOS

#106

Post by k310 »

I wrote one-off scientific applications in HyperCard for a rocket science company.

Graphics via creating HyperBasic XFCN's IIRC.

One was a simulator for trading off various optical sensors that our Director enjoyed using.

Again, IIRC, graphics output was also in EPS, that the tech pubs group could import directly into reports.

Another was a form, using built-in fields, that my boss stole (YAY) for creating documentation for a progranning project we were working on.

Output was in Postscript, basically in Unix manpage format.

When your boss steals the documentation job, it's a big win.

Fantastic rapid prototyping environment with no-brainer UI elements and persistent database.

Re: Decker, a platform that builds on the legacy of Hypercard and classic macOS

#107

Post by WorldMaker »

WorldMaker wrote: post #100
watersb wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cyan shipped at least one Hypercard game, before Myst. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manhole

All of Cyan's games were in Hypercard up to Myst. (Cosmic Osmo and Spelunx were the other two.) Myst ran in Hypercard in early Mac releases but switched to a cross-platform runtime Broderbund built to sell Myst on Windows CDs (and consoles and more). Riven was also majority designed/prototyped in Hypercard as a development platform, but more directly targeted from the beginning that same runtime Broderbund built for…

ScummVM refers to that Broderbund engine as Mohawk [0]. It's interesting all of the other games that used that engine, including several major Carmen Sandiego games. A lot of those Living Books series also felt like Hypercard stacks. I wonder if those Carmen Sandiego editions might also have been at least partially prototyped in Hypercard (though some of them seem to me like they'd be more complex than Hypercard).

[0] https://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php?title=Mohawk

Re: Decker, a platform that builds on the legacy of Hypercard and classic macOS

#109

Post by jdeltia »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #25
donohoe wrote: post #11

I miss HyperCard and I love projects like this at a nostalgia level - but if you're going to have aspirations that this is useful today (2026) with a real project then its a complete waste of time. I want HyperCard where I can build out a stack or whatever and actually present it to people as a real and tangible thing. I love living in the past as much as anyone else, but this is a little disappointing.

A lot of these modern HyperCard reinterpretations get stuck on the black-and-white aesthetics of the original. That's cool, but it limits how broadly appealing they become. Even back when HyperCard was relevant, Apple's inability to properly introduce color as a first-class feature was what effectively killed the product. A few years ago, I think there would have been a market for a HyperCard-inspired tool that targe…

decker has color!

Re: Decker, a platform that builds on the legacy of Hypercard and classic macOS

#110

Post by [deleted] »

donohoe wrote: post #11

I miss HyperCard and I love projects like this at a nostalgia level - but if you're going to have aspirations that this is useful today (2026) with a real project then its a complete waste of time. I want HyperCard where I can build out a stack or whatever and actually present it to people as a real and tangible thing. I love living in the past as much as anyone else, but this is a little disappointing.

[deleted]
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