Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Brexit Ten Years On: The Economy

ukandeu.ac.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–108 of 108 posts

Re: Brexit Ten Years On: The Economy

#101

Post by tim333 »

rich_sasha wrote: post #82
kayo_20211030 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

David Cameron may be the biggest idiot in almost 300 years of British Prime Ministers, and there's been a few beauties. He really could have done a better job with the whole referendum business. Up/Down only. No "by a majority of...". No requirement for a second referendum on the terms of the disengagement agreement. Asking him to stay around would have been like asking the driver that drove you over the cliff to dri…

The other misses opportunity was to require a majority from all the UK's constituent countries. One argument against Scottish independence vote just 2 (!) years prior was that Scotland would lose membership in the EU. And they really like this one it seems, with 62% voting to remain. But since they're only 8% of the population and apparently don't count, they instead got Brexited against their will. Similar with Nort…

I think it should have been at least a two stage process. First vote do you want to leave? Second vote after figuring out the details of hard/soft etc. go back to the voters with - so this is the deal, do you want it? The second likely would have been a no.

Re: Brexit Ten Years On: The Economy

#102

Post by tim333 »

mike_hearn wrote: post #93
pyeri wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was totally a rigged referendum, that bus hoarding propaganda somehow worked and the masses fell for the lies. But a great number didn't and it was barely lost by a few percentage points. David Cameron should have stayed and battled it out instead of resigning.

The bus was correct. The NHS budget has gone up by more than £350M since then even if you ignore the huge COVID boosts.

Not from money saved by leaving though.

Re: Brexit Ten Years On: The Economy

#103

Post by lenerdenator »

notahacker wrote: post #64
lenerdenator wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> soft power, public image Yes and no. There's always been an undercurrent of contempt for the US, particularly from Europe. Even during the Clinton and Obama years. There's no satisfying that.

> There's always been an undercurrent of contempt for the US, particularly from Europe. Even during the Clinton and Obama years. There's no satisfying that. Of course. But there's a difference between the sort of mild disdain tinged with envy you get from being the self-appointed "leader of the free world" and the reaction that electing a nakedly corrupt thundering moron who constantly belittles and threatens allies…

I wouldn't say it's ever been tinged with envy, really.

As far as being led by a nakedly corrupt thundering moron, you're absolutely correct. He's every one of those things.

The issue is that in dealings with other powers, it doesn't seem the rest of the world exercises the same standards.

European powers gladly inked the deal for Nordstream 2 after Russia invaded Georgia in 2008. There wasn't much soul-searching when it came to sending athletes and fans to both the Sochi Olympic Games and the 2018 World Cup, both of which occurred after the invasion/annexation of Crimea and after the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 by Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine. Russians are still able to get visas to the Schengen Area to this day despite the invasion of the Donbas and numerous acts of sabotage on EU soil by Russian agents.

A number of countries are currently hollowing out their industrial bases by buying up Chinese EVs. This is despite the Uighur genocide in western China, numerous acts of hacking, and continued threats to take over Taiwan by military force, which seems to be a more realistic threat in the next five years.

When you keep doing those sorts of things - things which have fundamental impacts on the world order and on your domestic economies - making Trump the hill you die on just seems stupid.

Re: Brexit Ten Years On: The Economy

#104

Post by mike_hearn »

tim333 wrote: post #102
mike_hearn wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bus was correct. The NHS budget has gone up by more than £350M since then even if you ignore the huge COVID boosts.

Not from money saved by leaving though.

Yes, from money saved by leaving. EU membership cost would have been a fair bit higher than £350M/week by now as it's GDP indexed, even.

Or what are you trying to argue here? You expected tax pounds to have colours, that there was some separate bank account labelled "EU funds"?

Re: Brexit Ten Years On: The Economy

#105

Post by tim333 »

mike_hearn wrote: post #104
tim333 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not from money saved by leaving though.

Yes, from money saved by leaving. EU membership cost would have been a fair bit higher than £350M/week by now as it's GDP indexed, even. Or what are you trying to argue here? You expected tax pounds to have colours, that there was some separate bank account labelled "EU funds"?

> various economic analyses estimate that the broader, ongoing cost of Brexit to the UK economy ranges between £100 billion and £140 billion due to reduced trade and investment

>Britain's national debt is growing at a faster pace than any country in the world except Botswana,

Re: Brexit Ten Years On: The Economy

#106

Post by notahacker »

lenerdenator wrote: post #103
notahacker wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's always been an undercurrent of contempt for the US, particularly from Europe. Even during the Clinton and Obama years. There's no satisfying that. Of course. But there's a difference between the sort of mild disdain tinged with envy you get from being the self-appointed "leader of the free world" and the reaction that electing a nakedly corrupt thundering moron who constantly belittles and threatens allies…

I wouldn't say it's ever been tinged with envy, really. As far as being led by a nakedly corrupt thundering moron, you're absolutely correct. He's every one of those things. The issue is that in dealings with other powers, it doesn't seem the rest of the world exercises the same standards. European powers gladly inked the deal for Nordstream 2 after Russia invaded Georgia in 2008. There wasn't much soul-searching whe…

> The issue is that in dealings with other powers, it doesn't seem the rest of the world exercises the same standards.

Sure, Europe not boycotting a competition and continuing to trade with Russia are exactly the same thing as US government officials parroting Kremlin lines after cosy chats with the one foreign leader the POTUS will not condemn, and even rocking up in Europe to campaign for the election of Putin's closest allies! Reality is Europe (and historically the US) trade with dictatorships out of some combination of commercial interest and necessity, the present day US has moved towards publicly fawning over dictatorships them whilst condemning the values of European democracy.

Actually when it comes to continuing to maintain cordial relationships and trade with belligerent superpowers who display open hostility to our values and human rights and even drop hints of threats towards our territories, Europe is generally pretty consistent. It's one reason why we're not boycotting the World Cup and still regard the US as a necessary partner in most things...

> When you keep doing those sorts of things - things which have fundamental impacts on the world order and on your domestic economies - making Trump the hill you die on just seems stupid.

China murmurs about invading Taiwan, the US openly threatens to annex a Danish territory, and even Americans who don't like Trump wonder why we're not following their instructions (not their example) to boycott China!

Part of the reason the damage to US soft power is likely to persist beyond Trump is the increasing evidence that his "Europe bad" worldview is not an aberration...

Re: Brexit Ten Years On: The Economy

#107

Post by mike_hearn »

tim333 wrote: post #105
mike_hearn wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, from money saved by leaving. EU membership cost would have been a fair bit higher than £350M/week by now as it's GDP indexed, even. Or what are you trying to argue here? You expected tax pounds to have colours, that there was some separate bank account labelled "EU funds"?

> various economic analyses estimate that the broader, ongoing cost of Brexit to the UK economy ranges between £100 billion and £140 billion due to reduced trade and investment >Britain's national debt is growing at a faster pace than any country in the world except Botswana,

The various economic analyses are wrong, please see my other comments in this thread about that.

The national debt is certainly very bad, but that's because the country elected a very left wing government. It's not related to Brexit.

Post reply on HN