Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes • Hacker News Board

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#101

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 6:28 AM UTC

acbart wrote: post #67

jmalicki wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if cheating was triggered using AI detectors, was it real? AI detectors are pretty mid in practice - they tend to have a lot of false positives for "B" students who are okay, but can still be struggled to be more coherent than AIs are. There are some specific triggers that AIs are way more likely to do than students, but a lot of AI detectors will trigger on this "almost there, but you're still struggling" level…

You'd be amazed at how many students we know are obviously cheating because the logs reveal that they copy pasted a long, complete answer within seconds of opening a problem for the first time, full of sophisticated code constructs that we didn't teach them, and lot's of nicely formatted comments. Sometimes they even copy/paste the entire GPT output and then format it down.

[deleted]

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#102

Post by TheServitor » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 6:29 AM UTC

The kids don't care about the integrity of the systems or their educations because they can see that all the benefits of a traditional education and career are predicated on a future that probably won't exist.

It's a rational response to entrenched elites that prevent realization of the very social contracts they push on the youth (hard work will equal success, home ownership is a fundamental, etc).

Combined with the looming specter of climate doom, and watching the adults do nothing about it, treating preparation for a conventional career as a scam to be counter-scammed makes a certain sense.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#103

Post by justinnk » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 6:29 AM UTC

threatripper wrote: post #76

camelmel wrote: post #35

I have some sympathy for these kids. If LLMs were around when I was a student, I would've also used them to "speed up" my homework assignments then proceed to fail all my tests. Now I work mostly with PhDs who were at the top of every academic environment they've ever been in. And yet I can see their thinking skills rapidly declining as well; many of them can no longer brainstorm, code, think deeply, or write without…

I'd argue that this is an adjustment period that society has to go through. The way we are using electronic devices today, in some years it will probably be looked at like smoking cigarettes. And I'd argue that a lot of the "decline" is due to a shift of skills away from things that mattered more in the past toward other things that are not measured/perceived by the older generation.

Interesting analogy. I believe regarding addictiveness they may be compared.

> a shift of skills away from things that mattered more in the past toward other things that are not measured/perceived by the older generation.

Do you have any ideas what these things might be? As someone in his twenties, I’m sometimes saddened by observing that some of the skills I acquired over a long time (e.g., writing, coding) may become obsolete or won’t be respected anymore just now that I‘m finally getting good at them.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#104

Post by camelmel » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 6:30 AM UTC

adi_kurian wrote: post #45

camelmel wrote: post #35

I have some sympathy for these kids. If LLMs were around when I was a student, I would've also used them to "speed up" my homework assignments then proceed to fail all my tests. Now I work mostly with PhDs who were at the top of every academic environment they've ever been in. And yet I can see their thinking skills rapidly declining as well; many of them can no longer brainstorm, code, think deeply, or write without…

Do any of said PhDs gain anything positive from LLM usage? Or does it only lead to declining thinking skills in your view?

Yes, I can churn out a lot more stuff as can most of my peers. Experiments etc are all way faster to run with coding agents. But I think the overall creativity and originality is a lot lower. I think this is what many people are facing, if you don't use LLMs your short term productivity is worse.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#105

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 6:31 AM UTC

anon291 wrote: post #93

camelmel wrote: post #35

I have some sympathy for these kids. If LLMs were around when I was a student, I would've also used them to "speed up" my homework assignments then proceed to fail all my tests. Now I work mostly with PhDs who were at the top of every academic environment they've ever been in. And yet I can see their thinking skills rapidly declining as well; many of them can no longer brainstorm, code, think deeply, or write without…

I feel the opposite. My brainstorming has increased rapidly. I can now just throw ideas at an LLM to rapidly validate.

[deleted]

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#106

Post by elictronic » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 6:32 AM UTC

vachina wrote: post #61

steve_taylor wrote: post #48

AI has a way of exposing people. In this example, students who are there to get a degree from a prestigious institution, rather than to learn, are prone to take perceived shortcuts and proceed to come unstuck when their AI isn't there to do their work for them, such as in an exam.

These people would’ve failed with or without AI.

You are wrong. Some would have failed before, but not in the larger numbers. Before when they couldn’t complete an assignment they would try different things, seek a professor, or seek out friends to help explain. You could find answer keys to many assignments online, but that doesn’t feel like learning and wouldn’t even always answer your actual misunderstanding. It wasn’t perfectly tailored to your issue all the time.

Now the barrier to an answer is zero. They are basically watching a YouTube video on how to X, seeing step by step instructions feeling like they are doing it, and the moment they swing a real hammer they are whacking themselves in the crotch. It might get better after a few years, but this stuff is just now hitting mainstream for the masses. ChatGPT has only been in mainstream use for about 3 years.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#107

Post by fnordpiglet » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 6:32 AM UTC

camelmel wrote: post #35

I have some sympathy for these kids. If LLMs were around when I was a student, I would've also used them to "speed up" my homework assignments then proceed to fail all my tests. Now I work mostly with PhDs who were at the top of every academic environment they've ever been in. And yet I can see their thinking skills rapidly declining as well; many of them can no longer brainstorm, code, think deeply, or write without…

LLMS didn’t invent cheating just made it easier. When you cheat you’re the one who cheats yourself because the point of an education is to learn, not complete the assignments and get high marks on tests alone. No one benefits and no one other than you is materially hurt by cheating, but you are absolutely the one who is hurt.

There’s no way to learn than to force the brain into adaptation which it is resistant to do through challenge and stress, just like your muscles. Similarly you can’t play e sports and get into physical condition any more than you can use LLMs to do your homework and learn.

It’s going to be a hard adjustment for a lot of people to recognize that letting the machine think for you is as healthy as smoking brain cigarettes.

The smart student uses the LLM as a proctor or provide challenges and feedback on attempts rather than an easy button. They make great tools for learning if they’re used as an adversarial or editorial tool. The future belongs to those who work to use the tools in ways that make themselves more efficacious, not those who use efficacious tools so they don’t have to work.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#108

Post by beezlewax » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 6:34 AM UTC

dyauspitr wrote: post #26

com2kid wrote: post #12

At this point I would support a ban on generative AI by anyone under 18, or even perhaps 21 years of age. A bunch of science fiction stories had "first connection to cyberspace" as a coming of age event, maybe those authors were on to something.

It’s like the greatest teacher. Plus it’s not toxic like social media. Banning it would be a shame.

Social media wasn't always toxic at least not to the degree it is today. LLMs could be potentially a lot worse given the right set of instructions

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#109

Post by mylastattempt » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 6:35 AM UTC

Forgeties79 wrote: post #82

threatripper wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that this is an adjustment period that society has to go through. The way we are using electronic devices today, in some years it will probably be looked at like smoking cigarettes. And I'd argue that a lot of the "decline" is due to a shift of skills away from things that mattered more in the past toward other things that are not measured/perceived by the older generation.

> I'd argue that this is an adjustment period that society has to go through. I used to think like this until social media proved there are some tech innovations we just can’t adjust to. 10 years ago you would’ve never caught me supporting any sort of age based social media ban. Now? I don’t think it goes far enough. Fake news ( actual fake news) and misinformation has only gotten worse with it as well. It’s so destr…

The human is designed to interact with small groups, to understand several smaller groups, and perhaps to imagine a big group of smaller groups. In a literal sense, let's say 100 people per group. At that level the human can actually know and interact with them still. In a city of 100.000 it's still managable to feel you are related and involved to this group-of-groups. In a city of a million, you'll revert to only your own small group and have lost the connection to the collective.

The same goes for speed and quantity of input, as to what the human is designed for (not literally designed). Be it social media with it's infinite scrolling, cars racing by as opposed to looking out the window a few times per hour because you see someone/something, constant sound input if you live anywhere remotely busy or work in a busy office.

The point I'm trying to make is that the world used to be comprehensible for the human. Some understood a little complexer things, some only the simpler things. Now there is an overload of everything. So, most humans are in survival mode wether they know it or not. Hence the many seekin mindfullness etc

No matter, it's an observation, not a judgement or opinion on it. The world will just keep rushing forward. Some have a slight hand in the direction it goes for better (never) or for worse, but spiral it will.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#110

Post by prerok » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 6:36 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #59

thraway3837 wrote: post #32

Sorry, but I don't think AI is entirely to blame here. When I graduated from a CS program at a top-10 school, I felt frustrated that the professors didn't ever teach. They had slides. They read off slides, verbatim. They explained things sometimes if you asked them, but most often in a very elitist and condescending tone. Like in the movie Good Will Hunting, you could have learned nearly all of it and more by borrowi…

I really wonder if it's important to learn all that low-level stuff at this point. Most programmers today will never write a binary tree or a hash table. Modern high-performance ones are generic components you get from libraries. Even MIT gave up on teaching from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs. I got all that stuff. I've wired up a 4-bit adder on a solderless breadboard for an architecture class. I…

I think it is important to learn how to implement it because it gives the student an opportunity to learn precisely because it's been done countless times and debated over to death. There are many analyses and if one doesn't click, maybe another one will. A student can learn how to analyze the algorithms and try out different implementations to assess differences in performance.

Of course, if a student just breezes through it then I would agree. That would make no sense.