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Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

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Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#61

AI has a way of exposing people. In this example, students who are there to get a degree from a prestigious institution, rather than to learn, are prone to take perceived shortcuts and proceed to come unstuck when their AI isn't there to do their work for them, such as in an exam.

These people would’ve failed with or without AI.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do any of said PhDs gain anything positive from LLM usage? Or does it only lead to declining thinking skills in your view?

They're incredibly more productive. LLMs are amplifiers, so where they'd have branched and tried out N things, they can easily try 5N pathways of RnD. LLMs are extending the frontiers of science fast -- math -> phy -> chem -> bio in that order.

I'm hearing different from PhDs. The bottleneck with much research isn't "trying out ideas" so much as it's all the bureaucratic minutiae, grants, mentoring PhD candidates, collaboration with other researchers, etc.

I've heard LLMs can be helpful in limited targeted ways. But not as some kind of "game changing" accelerant.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many of them can no longer sit quietly for even 30 minutes just thinking on their own Sorry, but I highly doubt that. Has a very "old man yells at clouds" vibe.

I doubt that you doubt that. I think you actually believe they're speaking truthfully and in good faith.

I doubt it. I'm stupid and I use LLMs a lot but I can still meditate for 30 minutes.

But apparently some of the smartest people in the world have lost the skill? But the commenter haven't, because why, they're 15 years older and thus immune to the same LLM-effects?

Plus, the issue with people having trouble sitting still for 30 minutes precede LLMs with decades.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the removal of standardized testing in 2021 was the real reason, then why is there a sudden spike of failure rates happening right now?

It takes time for students to work their way through the system.

In the spring, but not the fall?

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#65

> Some of the numbers that you saw from the number of students who receive failing grades were because we caught them (cheating) and prosecuted them and are sending their cases to the center for student conduct,” Garcia said. According to Garcia, nearly 30 students in CS 10 were caught cheating on take-home exams in spring 2026.

In my uni, rates of honor code violations in introductory CS classes were high even before AI. I was a section-leader for the CS106 series at Stanford, and the honor code violations were common. In 2015, ~20% of one intro class was suspected of an honor code violation [1]. Often, the CS department comprised the majority of honor code violations in a given quarter. There are several reasons for this: 1. Cheating in CS…

> MOSS [2] (authored by CS professor Alex Aiken) is a very effective tool at detecting plagiarism

He apparently also makes (I would assume a satisfying amount of) money selling the same technology to law firms for copyright/patent analysis: https://www.similix.com

(I love these ultra minimal HTML sites, ex. https://www.hwaci.com (SQLite commercial licensing) for another example. It just has this subtle smugness, like you either don't need any new clients or virtually all of the market is your client.)

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do any of said PhDs gain anything positive from LLM usage? Or does it only lead to declining thinking skills in your view?

They're incredibly more productive. LLMs are amplifiers, so where they'd have branched and tried out N things, they can easily try 5N pathways of RnD. LLMs are extending the frontiers of science fast -- math -> phy -> chem -> bio in that order.

In my own experience, the only path I truly gain intellectual benefits is the one where I work closely with the LLM, test very narrow hypotheses, and leverage it for learning over producing.

Trying 5N paths is useful and sometimes yields interesting insights I’ll retain, but it’s not the rich, challenging, deeply engaging kind of process I find I need in order to develop useful knowledge and skills.

So yes it’s an accelerant for people who want stuff from me, but that doesn’t map directly to learning and building skills. I think that mismatching is really important.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or how many are normally caught cheating? Did they use AI to detect AI using cheaters?

And if cheating was triggered using AI detectors, was it real? AI detectors are pretty mid in practice - they tend to have a lot of false positives for "B" students who are okay, but can still be struggled to be more coherent than AIs are. There are some specific triggers that AIs are way more likely to do than students, but a lot of AI detectors will trigger on this "almost there, but you're still struggling" level…

You'd be amazed at how many students we know are obviously cheating because the logs reveal that they copy pasted a long, complete answer within seconds of opening a problem for the first time, full of sophisticated code constructs that we didn't teach them, and lot's of nicely formatted comments. Sometimes they even copy/paste the entire GPT output and then format it down.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do any of said PhDs gain anything positive from LLM usage? Or does it only lead to declining thinking skills in your view?

They're incredibly more productive. LLMs are amplifiers, so where they'd have branched and tried out N things, they can easily try 5N pathways of RnD. LLMs are extending the frontiers of science fast -- math -> phy -> chem -> bio in that order.

The AI is among us.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#69
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that you doubt that. I think you actually believe they're speaking truthfully and in good faith.

I doubt it. I'm stupid and I use LLMs a lot but I can still meditate for 30 minutes. But apparently some of the smartest people in the world have lost the skill? But the commenter haven't, because why, they're 15 years older and thus immune to the same LLM-effects? Plus, the issue with people having trouble sitting still for 30 minutes precede LLMs with decades.

> I'm stupid and I use LLMs a lot but I can still meditate for 30 minutes.

> apparently some of the smartest people in the world have lost the skill?

> But the commenter haven't

> why?

Perhaps because a correlation you assumed was there (more smartness = more ability to sit still alone with one's thoughts), is not actually as strong as you thought? If one does not start with that assumption, there is no inherent conflict in the 3 pieces of evidence you cited.

Or perhaps because you are smarter than you give yourself credit for :)

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