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Israel live-tweets assault on Gaza

arstechnica.com

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Re: Israel live-tweets assault on Gaza

#101

Post by sharkweek »

kibwen wrote: post #39

I'm agape at such a bizarre use of social media. If I didn't know better, I'd say this was satire. Hell, this image alone is Onion-worthy: http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/war-of... Thing is, I can't pinpoint why, exactly, it feels so strange. Just... militant combatants pledging mutual annihilation, living right alongside a photo of your aunt's cat peering out of a shoebox. The dissonance is off…

This whole social media being used in war strikes me as something right of of a Vonnegut novel

Re: Israel live-tweets assault on Gaza

#102

Post by YZF »

cup wrote: post #93
YZF wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since this is HN let met just say that I hope you don't apply the same sort of oversimplification to the code you write. Technically Gaza may have been under Egyptian control historically but Egypt doesn't want it back. Israel has no presence in Gaza. So there's no occupation in Gaza and no apartheid in Gaza any more than there is South Korean occupation and apartheid in North Korea. That doesn't mean everything is r…

If Israel has no presence in Gaza then why is the municipality not given access to the sea and to the air. Is there a sea port in Gaza? Attempts to whitewash Israels treatment of the Palestinians falls short the minute facts enter the argument.

Why can't North Korea import missiles and parts for their nuclear program through the South Korean border? I say, we must protest that. Israel is at war with the Gaza entity so they blockade it (partially, oddly enough Gaza does get a lot of supplies from Israel). To continue the analogy, just like North Korea can import through its border with China so can Gaza through its border with Egypt. As evidence of there being no effective blockade look at the amount of weaponry available to the Gaza people. Israel doesn't pretend to treat Gaza well so there's no need to whitewash that. However to some extent it's a function of Gaza's attacks on Israel. In the west bank Israel also doesn't treat the Palestinians that well and the "apartheid/occupation" argument may hold a tiny bit more water there but it's also some sort of more stable Palestinian partial autonomy over there. The west bank used to be under Jordanian control and Jordan doesn't want it back either. Anyway, as I was saying the situation is far from simple. It's not black and white.

Re: Israel live-tweets assault on Gaza

#103

Post by cup »

philwelch wrote: post #96
cup wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Israel has no presence in Gaza then why is the municipality not given access to the sea and to the air. Is there a sea port in Gaza? Attempts to whitewash Israels treatment of the Palestinians falls short the minute facts enter the argument.

Because if they had that access, they would import weapons to use to kill Israeli civilians. Are you forgetting which side of this conflict tends to strap bombs onto their chests before walking into a nightclub?

Is it the same side that straps children to the front of armoured troop carriers? You're trying to make this a dichotomic issue when its not. How do you expect Hamas to maintain a truce with Israel when Israel prevents them from acquiring the basic tools necessary to govern!

Why does Israel ban confectionary into Gaza?

Re: Israel live-tweets assault on Gaza

#104

Post by kamaal »

blvr wrote: post #89
kamaal wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Zionism is the idea that Jews need a Jewish nation to take Jewish refugees fleeing persecution. Makes perfect sense. If you settle a persecuted set of people on a totally unoccupied land, which would be totally harmless. What I don't understand is the need to persecute one already existing set of people to accommodate another set of people who just got persecuted. If a persecuted tribe in Africa decides to settle d…

>>If a persecuted tribe in Africa decides to settle down in Antarctica people wouldn't have a problem. But will it be OK, if they invade California drive out the existing set of people there and settle down. If you think that's analogous to what happened in Palestine you need a history lesson.

From the above comment(from 'philwech') Indians were living in California originally.

Will it be ok, If they drive out existing residents of California?

Re: Israel live-tweets assault on Gaza

#105

Post by yread »

philwelch wrote: post #71
skrebbel wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. In fact, I may very well not know the most basic things about this country. But then how do you explain the colonization programme? The only explanation I've been able to figure out is some zionist idea of a right to a patch of land; some race-based sense of superiority. Why else bulldozer villages far across the border that was last determined in a treaty? These are horrible crimes, committed willingly b…

> But then how do you explain the colonization programme? I don't especially like the settlements, actually, and neither do a lot of Palestinians. I'd be happier if the lot of them were either removed or simply abandoned to the jurisdiction of Palestinian authorities. Sharon actually closed a lot of them awhile ago, but just like any democracy, it's hard to get away with alienating any constituency. You'll notice tha…

I don't think Israel accepts that Palestine has a right to exist as an independent state. Does that make them unreasonable?

Re: Israel live-tweets assault on Gaza

#106

Post by guelo »

philwelch wrote: post #94
guelo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea right. Are you saying that Zionists locating Israel in Palestine has nothing to do with their 3,000 year old holy book?

It's fairly uncontroversial historical fact that the Jews are originally from Palestine. Why don't you do research on the early Zionists, if you're actually curious about the subject and not just trying to score points in an internet debate? Probably most of the early Zionists were very secularist.

Unfortunately I do not trust much of what I read about Israel, there is just too much propaganda from all sides. Everything is twisted for some cause. The only thing I know for certain is that the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948 was probably a really bad idea since it has led to so many wars.

Re: Israel live-tweets assault on Gaza

#107

Post by kamaal »

philwelch wrote: post #91
kamaal wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Zionism is the idea that Jews need a Jewish nation to take Jewish refugees fleeing persecution. Makes perfect sense. If you settle a persecuted set of people on a totally unoccupied land, which would be totally harmless. What I don't understand is the need to persecute one already existing set of people to accommodate another set of people who just got persecuted. If a persecuted tribe in Africa decides to settle d…

California has been "invaded" and the existing set of people "driven out" what, two times going on three now? (The Spanish driving out the Indians, Americans driving out the Mexicans, and now Hispanics immigrating at record rates driving out white Americans). This narrative about driving people out is an oversimplification at best, though, just as much for Israel as for California.

>> and now Hispanics immigrating at record rates driving out white Americans

I don't see Hispanics flying around in F-16's bombing white American colonies. If they do, I will be the first to speak out. What you seem to be talking about is natural change in demographics, where a group of people grow in population and the other group doesn't grow much. And then there is natural movement(like immigration in case of Hispanics).

Also if its oversimplification, please explain us the right thing.

Re: Israel live-tweets assault on Gaza

#108

Post by pinaceae »

confluence wrote: post #54
pinaceae wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you mean besides the 'iconic' picture of the war room with Obama and his top aides watching the raid? detailed accounts of what happened? pictures of the aftermath? an onslaught of books, movies, references? nope, nothing at all. but somehow everyone knows that seal team six is BADASS. pointing to the US, of all countries, as a counter example is a cognitive dissonance of such magnitude, it is baffling. greetings fro…

Those were press releases - they happen everyday to report serious events. The White House pictures showed no glee and did not trivialise the situation - they were serious and released appropriately. No photos of Osama or his assassination were released. The pictures of the aftermath were from Pakistan. Books/Movies/References occur with any high impact event - you cannot stop them. Greetings from "get off your high…

so what's your beef with @IDFSpokesperson then? those are press releases, just in Twitter not through Reuters.

@USArmy, @USFOR_A + @ISAF_RC_South + @ISAFmedia, @DeptofDefense, @StateDept, @NATO, http://www.pentagonchannel.mil/ ... all exist and post war content directly.

the IDF is doing the same.

Re: Israel live-tweets assault on Gaza

#109

Post by philwelch »

cup wrote: post #103
philwelch wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if they had that access, they would import weapons to use to kill Israeli civilians. Are you forgetting which side of this conflict tends to strap bombs onto their chests before walking into a nightclub?

Is it the same side that straps children to the front of armoured troop carriers? You're trying to make this a dichotomic issue when its not. How do you expect Hamas to maintain a truce with Israel when Israel prevents them from acquiring the basic tools necessary to govern! Why does Israel ban confectionary into Gaza?

> How do you expect Hamas to maintain a truce with Israel

I don't, because Hamas is a terrorist organization with the express goal of destroying Israel. And it's not for lack of candy, either.

> Is it the same side that straps children to the front of armoured troop carriers?

Um, do you have any kind of evidence of that ever happening, or is this just another blood libel? Google literally brings up your comment as the only relevant result.

Re: Israel live-tweets assault on Gaza

#110

Post by philwelch »

yread wrote: post #105
philwelch wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But then how do you explain the colonization programme? I don't especially like the settlements, actually, and neither do a lot of Palestinians. I'd be happier if the lot of them were either removed or simply abandoned to the jurisdiction of Palestinian authorities. Sharon actually closed a lot of them awhile ago, but just like any democracy, it's hard to get away with alienating any constituency. You'll notice tha…

I don't think Israel accepts that Palestine has a right to exist as an independent state. Does that make them unreasonable?

That's a generalization. By my understanding, Labor and Kadima accept that Palestine should exist as an independent state, and Likud do not. This would make Likud unreasonable, but Likud does not represent all Israelis, nor is it fair to equate support for Israel's defense and continued existence with support for Likud's policies in particular.

There are also Palestinian factions which are unreasonable, including Hamas. I think it's doubly unfortunate that both Hamas and Likud have managed to win various elections.

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