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Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

theregister.com

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Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#101

Post by sheiyei »

brainwad wrote: post #39
Matl wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you and don't really get what Apple gets from removing a valid Czech character, but how would you test if all existing passcodes remain inputable without knowing the passcodes of all iPhone users? The one way to do this that I could see is to include both the new keyboard and the old one and if someone fails to unlock with the new one auto report that to Apple (not the code, just that the unlock failed a…

You assume the worst case: every character that could ever have been entered is in use.

Yes, it really is that simple. They chose that responsibility the moment they allowed those characters. Any deductions done after that need to have a failsafe with the expectation they will break a clueless user's device.

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#102

Post by setopt »

stevage wrote: post #54
RobotToaster wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how would you test if all existing passcodes remain inputable without knowing the passcodes of all iPhone users? You basically can't ever remove an available character. That includes emojis if they're allowed in IOS passwords.

Probably the better solution is to include some kind of special lock-screen keyboard that provides some fallback mechanism to input any character. Presumably there are similar edge cases where someone creates a password using one keyboard, then switches keyboard layout, and now can't re-enter it using the active layout...

Indeed. For example, most desktop operating systems have a keybinding for «search for any Unicode symbol by name and input it». That would make sense to have as a fallback button on a virtual keyboard too.

The iOS emoji selector is close in UI/UX already, but the search is restricted to the emoji range of Unicode.

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#103

Post by lxgr »

thephyber wrote: post #51

The side of my brain that manages organizational changes wonders: how does Apple, a 50 year old company of tens of thousands of engineers and over a trillion USD market cap, manage to keep feature velocity high while not making more of these types of errors? The bug seems low likelihood but high severity for the few affected users. Other than simply never changing the login keyboard (or any of the keyboard code) or h…

> how does Apple, a 50 year old company of tens of thousands of engineers and over a trillion USD market cap, manage to keep feature velocity high while not making more of these types of errors?

They don't. If you're anything other than an extremely casual user of iOS or macOS for a couple of years, you'll encounter things that really make you pull your hair out by shear magnitude of "how on Earth can anyone miss this!?".

The same goes for feature velocity.

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#104

Post by CTDOCodebases »

PufPufPuf wrote: post #20

I think the biggest lesson here is to back up. The reason for losing access to the phone is amazingly dumb but it could have fallen down the stairs for basically the same effect. And do your could backups cross-provider. You never know what the "big players" are going to pull, and your lifetime customer value is less than the cost of a single support call.

The biggest lesson here is don't buy Apple products.

Steve Jobs would be rolling in his grave if he could see the software quality of the products that Apple releases today.

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#105

Post by relaxing »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #85
PufPufPuf wrote: post #20

I think the biggest lesson here is to back up. The reason for losing access to the phone is amazingly dumb but it could have fallen down the stairs for basically the same effect. And do your could backups cross-provider. You never know what the "big players" are going to pull, and your lifetime customer value is less than the cost of a single support call.

Biggest lesson is Apple should allow you to downgrade OS, especially on old devices. Or release some sort of open version once device is EOL'd.

Then an attacker could load an older, exploitable OS and gain access.

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#107

Post by chithanh »

rock_artist wrote: post #61
bostik wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phased roll-out. You first introduce a version that still accepts all extant inputs but will actively warn that there are characters that will be removed in a future release. Then you wait. Then you roll out a version where the new functionality is flipped on by default, but where you still allow to explicitly toggle to the old one. Then you wait some more. And then - only then - you roll out a release where the old…

It might be tricky when user upgrades while jumping the “headups” version. There should be migration taken into consideration that is kept to any previous version allowed to be upgraded from.

And perhaps also introduce an upgrade blocker, as the keyboard app notifies the system of a situation that would be unsafe to upgrade to newer releases

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#108

Post by CTDOCodebases »

anal_reactor wrote: post #63
PufPufPuf wrote: post #20

I think the biggest lesson here is to back up. The reason for losing access to the phone is amazingly dumb but it could have fallen down the stairs for basically the same effect. And do your could backups cross-provider. You never know what the "big players" are going to pull, and your lifetime customer value is less than the cost of a single support call.

This is exactly the reason why I keep all my shit on an SD card despite Google deliberately making the external storage experience as painful as possible: slow access, broken writes, failed unmounts, no filesystem repair. Literally every time I restart my phone I need to put the card to my PC and repair the filesystem. Also, same card works extremely well when plugged into PC via random cheap USB card reader. On PCs…

The thing that bothers me about Android is the gimped file manager.

You wan't to access some files off your network using smb? Here install this third party tool and don't forget to give it full read/write access to your device.

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#109

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

bostik wrote: post #41
Matl wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you and don't really get what Apple gets from removing a valid Czech character, but how would you test if all existing passcodes remain inputable without knowing the passcodes of all iPhone users? The one way to do this that I could see is to include both the new keyboard and the old one and if someone fails to unlock with the new one auto report that to Apple (not the code, just that the unlock failed a…

Phased roll-out. You first introduce a version that still accepts all extant inputs but will actively warn that there are characters that will be removed in a future release. Then you wait. Then you roll out a version where the new functionality is flipped on by default, but where you still allow to explicitly toggle to the old one. Then you wait some more. And then - only then - you roll out a release where the old…

That’s dangerous. Apple fooled me with the iOS 26 glass theme, it’ll be a while before I install another major update from them. I know many people still on iOS 18. I doubt many of them will update until either Apple fixes their UI/UX or they upgrade to an Android.

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#110

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

userbinator wrote: post #8

after Apple removed a character from its Czech keyboard I wonder what the thought process (or perhaps lack thereof) at Apple was. Did no one of the likely-somewhat-large team who did that think "wait, this could lock out our users who may have used that character"? In the immortal words of Linus Torvalds: "WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE!" Now one of the ways in might be those companies who claim to be able to break iPhone…

Many people here are discussing a phase out. Just add an obscure key combo that won’t be triggered via normal use, and leave it there forever.
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