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Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

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Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#41

Post by bostik »

Matl wrote: post #36
shawnta wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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I agree with you and don't really get what Apple gets from removing a valid Czech character, but how would you test if all existing passcodes remain inputable without knowing the passcodes of all iPhone users? The one way to do this that I could see is to include both the new keyboard and the old one and if someone fails to unlock with the new one auto report that to Apple (not the code, just that the unlock failed a…

Phased roll-out. You first introduce a version that still accepts all extant inputs but will actively warn that there are characters that will be removed in a future release.

Then you wait. Then you roll out a version where the new functionality is flipped on by default, but where you still allow to explicitly toggle to the old one. Then you wait some more.

And then - only then - you roll out a release where the old functionality has been removed entirely.

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#42

Post by tsimionescu »

_the_inflator wrote: post #19

Well I only use alphanumeric US keyboard standards ever since I found out, that certain characters unique to a language different from yours causes you lock out or massive headaches on a used keyboard with almost no print ink left on the keyboard in a Internet cafe in an other country around 2002. Be aware of characters not passwords. I feel bad for the guy but not really blame Apple here. English is my second langua…

I agree with the recommendation, but it's absurd to not blame Apple here. There is absolutely nothing acceptable about what Apple did in this case, it's a major fuck-up to break password input in this way, and for no reason whatsoever.

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#43

Post by Shank »

PlunderBunny wrote: post #23

Even if he did have a Mac with the continuity feature enabled, I suppose the lock-screen won’t accept a paste from the clipboard of a Mac. (If it did, he could enter the correct passcode in any text editor on his Mac, copy it to the clipboard on the Mac, then paste it into the lock-screen on his iPhone)

Continuity has never worked on the lock screen and certainly not in the BFU state.

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#44

Post by Y-bar »

halapro wrote: post #27
userbinator wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "real mistake" is changing things that used to work.

You can use emojis as passwords, do you think that's a good idea? They work now, there's a good chance that they won't be the same forever. See what happened to the family emojis

Did the underlying bits (hex/oct/… or whatever representation) actually change or just the visuals?

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#45

Post by thephyber »

halapro wrote: post #27
userbinator wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "real mistake" is changing things that used to work.

You can use emojis as passwords, do you think that's a good idea? They work now, there's a good chance that they won't be the same forever. See what happened to the family emojis

Passwords are more secure if they are higher entropy, so it makes sense to support a larger variety of characters, Czech or emoji.

It seems paramount that the OS should not allow password input of any characters which it theater takes away. At the very minimum if this is absolutely necessary to make this breaking change, the user should be warned several times that a character in the password is no longer valid and maybe even prevent the OS from upgrading before the password is changed to a forward-compatible one.

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#46

Post by pbhjpbhj »

bostik wrote: post #41
Matl wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you and don't really get what Apple gets from removing a valid Czech character, but how would you test if all existing passcodes remain inputable without knowing the passcodes of all iPhone users? The one way to do this that I could see is to include both the new keyboard and the old one and if someone fails to unlock with the new one auto report that to Apple (not the code, just that the unlock failed a…

Phased roll-out. You first introduce a version that still accepts all extant inputs but will actively warn that there are characters that will be removed in a future release. Then you wait. Then you roll out a version where the new functionality is flipped on by default, but where you still allow to explicitly toggle to the old one. Then you wait some more. And then - only then - you roll out a release where the old…

Meh, I think you keep the old keyboard and set a password expiry. New passwords use the new keyboard. Or, if you're in a rush to remove the old code, _after_ next login you require password replacement and use the new onscreen keyboard from then.

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#47

Post by tomaskafka »

nasretdinov wrote: post #11

As a non-English speaker I can really relate to this. I think the real mistake was Apple allowing to enter a non-ASCII password in the first place. E.g. on macOS the password fields have been locked to English character set, and I'm not sure why it changed on iOS.

Are you aware that billions of people live in countries where they could go on the whole life without seeing an ascii letter?

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#48

Post by nikanj »

bpavuk wrote: post #38
N19PEDL2 wrote: post #14

> Byrne was hoping that the next update, 26.4.1, would introduce a fix for this, but its release this week has not helped. Even if Apple restores the háček in a future update, wouldn't he still need to unlock the iPhone to install it?

afaik you can update your locked iPhone with a Mac or Windows in iTunes... but it will still require a passcode after update, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Nope, the ”trust this computer” dialog needs you to enter your passcode before any other actions are possible

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#49

Post by trinix912 »

nasretdinov wrote: post #32
trinix912 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why should non-English speaking users be forced to use an ASCII password if the rest of the OS supports their language just fine?

If you remember what was the encodings situation before UTF-8 became the norm... Let's say it was really ugly. E.g. there were at least two popular encodings for Russian Cyrillic letters — CP1251 and KOI8-R, and it was _very_ common for applications getting it wrong. Restricting things like passwords (and ideally even file names) to ASCII this was a practical necessity rather than an inconvenience.

Well yes, but you can process all passwords as UTF-8, as most of strings are in mac/iOS anyways, to avoid these problems. Then just don’t break an established standard like the keyboard layout. Is that too much to ask for in 2026?

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#50

Post by nubg »

shawnta wrote: post #15
userbinator wrote: post #8

after Apple removed a character from its Czech keyboard I wonder what the thought process (or perhaps lack thereof) at Apple was. Did no one of the likely-somewhat-large team who did that think "wait, this could lock out our users who may have used that character"? In the immortal words of Linus Torvalds: "WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE!" Now one of the ways in might be those companies who claim to be able to break iPhone…

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