Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Code is run more than read (2023)

olano.dev

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 110 posts

Re: Code is run more than read (2023)

#101

Post by quickthrowman »

manquer wrote: post #40
its_ethan wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right but what I'm getting at is that there can be tradeoffs that might make designing for maintainability mean optimizing for something less important to the end user. Do you optimize an engine for how easy it is to replace a filter once or twice a year (most likely done by someone the average car-owner is already paying to change their oil for them), or do you optimize it for getting better gas mileage over every s…

Only TCO matters, that is the efficiency you actually optimize for, ie dollar per mile[1]not miles per gallon. If the car is going to need to be in shop for days needing you to have a replacement rental because the model is difficult to service and the cost of service itself is not cheap , that can easily outweigh any marginal mpg gain . Similarly because it is expensive and time consuming you may likely skip service…

> Only TCO matters, that is the efficiency you actually optimize for, ie dollar per mile[1]not miles per gallon.

You’d be surprised how few people actually consider TCO when looking at vehicles, the amount of people driving Jeeps and Audis and similar vehicles that depreciate 60-70% in 5-6 years blows my mind, I just assume anyone driving a car like that hates money.

I bought a RAV4 for $32,000 in 2021, a co-worker of mine paid just over $60k for a Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe the same year, and the model years are the same. 5 years later, my car is worth more than his (around 22k, his is 18-20k), he ate over $40,000 of depreciation in 5 years, that’s just insane to me.

Re: Code is run more than read (2023)

#102

Post by quickthrowman »

Arch-TK wrote: post #47
its_ethan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if there's an efficiency in engine design by placing the filter in the middle that leads to a +2mpg improvement for the driver? Or that it fails, on average, 22k miles later into it's life? Not all hard-to-repair-yourself designs are malicious...

We don't have magic oil filters which last even 22k miles. You should be replacing them every 6 months / 6k miles, or 12 months / 12k miles depending on your risk tolerance (some people suggest even half my short interval). Anyone who actually drives their car regularly will be doing an oil change at least twice a year. If an oil change takes more than 30 minutes of actual labour time of an inexperienced mechanic, it…

> You should be replacing them every 6 months / 6k miles, or 12 months / 12k miles depending on your risk tolerance

You should be replacing your oil filters based on the manufacturer’s service schedule, there’s no rule of thumb. Look at the service manual, my car has the filter change scheduled every 10,000 miles.

Re: Code is run more than read (2023)

#103

Post by fennu637 »

alexpotato wrote: post #7

I've worked at some of the "top tier" finance firms over the years. It is absolutely astounding how much of them run on code that is: - very reliable aka it almost never breaks/fails - written in ways that makes you wonder what series of events led to such awful code For example: - A deployment system that used python to read and respond to raw HTTP requests. If you triggered a deployment, you had to leave the webpag…

[dead]

Re: Code is run more than read (2023)

#104

Post by tmtvl »

codemog wrote: post #24
choeger wrote: post #3

Clearly, there is a thing missing here: Regulations. If you have strong regulations on how you can make money, you cannot sustainably have biz antagonize user. So in that case biz just becomes a filter for users that actually are willing (and able) to fund your software. That's a good thing. Obviously, our regulations aren't perfect or even good enough yet. See DRM. See spyware TVs. See "who actually gets to control…

Stupid regulations are why we have an idiotic cookie banner on many websites.

No, that's malicious compliance. If the owners of those websites would just stop ignoring visitors' right to privacy they wouldn't be showing those banners (yes, I know the website of the EU also has such a banner, lazy devs are lazy).

Re: Code is run more than read (2023)

#105

Post by eszed »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #14
its_ethan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if there's an efficiency in engine design by placing the filter in the middle that leads to a +2mpg improvement for the driver? Or that it fails, on average, 22k miles later into it's life? Not all hard-to-repair-yourself designs are malicious...

Except..there is never such reason. They can put the filter anywhere in the pipeline. Some even have it exactly where it should be: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/2013+Subaru+Legacy+Oil+and+Oil+...

Mazda has historically been very good at designing for repairability. My (latest) Mazda is ten years old, so I cannot verify any model later than that, but it's one reason I've been brand-loyal for decades. The 2015 CX-5 puts the oil filter right next to the drain plug, slightly recessed (for protection, I assume), but with ample clearance around it for tool and finger access. It's the best thought-out oil filter location I've ever seen; I cannot think of any possible improvement. The advantage of that, over Subaru's choice, is that the oil in the filter can only ever spill into your drain pan (or I guess the ground, if you're a numpty), never into your engine compartment.

Re: Code is run more than read (2023)

#106

Post by Paul_Clayton »

snek_case wrote: post #57
logancbrown wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ford Maverick (2022+) requires removing the air intake to remove the car battery. This is fairly common across many new car models.

In general it looks like these kinds of changes are trying to make it harder for people to do this kind of basic maintenance themselves. Force you to go to the dealer.

While increasing dealer revenue is a plausible goal, it also seems plausible that reducing production cost could cause awkward maintenance. It is even plausible that only the bill of materials would be considered, though the feedback loop for increasing assembly cost is much tighter and less noisy that the loop of end-user dissatisfaction with maintenance issues.

Even within an organization, creating externalities from one department's perspective seems common enough.

Even if a decision maker is aware of the possibility of externalities and cares about a broader constituency (temporal or "spatial"), evaluating actual costs is an expense as is justifying that investigation expense and any mitigation/avoidance expenses to others in the decision web.

Re: Code is run more than read (2023)

#108

Post by bluGill »

Arch-TK wrote: post #92
bluGill wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don't have magic oil filters which last even 22k miles. You should be replacing them every 6 months / 6k miles, or 12 months / 12k miles depending on your risk tolerance (some people suggest even half my short interval). We do - they are just a lot bigger. You should replace the oil filter when it is no longer filtering. Replacing it early is a pure waste of money. Unfortunately the tests of do you need to chang…

> We do - they are just a lot bigger. Yeah, of course, but I am not aware of any regular car which comes stock with such filters. The point was really that lasting 22k miles longer than stock would be an unrealistic improvement for a filter for a normal car. > You should replace the oil filter when it is no longer filtering. I was specifically referring to manufacturer recommendations. Of course they're conservative,…

Cars are fairly easy to service, and and so get shorter oil change intervals. industrial engines often get bigger filters. A thermoking refrigerator has a massive filter for a tiny 2 liter engine (at least the one unit I've seen - which was at least 30 years old, I don't know what the latest do)

Re: Code is run more than read (2023)

#109

Post by Arch-TK »

rixed wrote: post #97
its_ethan wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, I'm sure most people on this website have ran into seemingly bad design choices which made sense once they knew more context. But that doesn't mean that all bad design choices are like this. I'm literally just saying the yin to this yang. Just because you run into a design that feels malicious doesn't mean that it always is. Again, sorry for the sin of trying to make an analogy/example of something I'm not an…

Option 1: "I am so much smarter than these stupid engineers" Option 2: "Certainly, I do not understand the various trade offs that led to this design" I wished at least in software tech circles there would be more of option 2 kind of thinking.

Option 3: "Engineers have discussed this at length and all agree that the only justifications for this design are based in extremely short-term thinking."

Re: Code is run more than read (2023)

#110

Post by cestith »

direwolf20 wrote: post #96
cestith wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Richard Brand says the most important thing to grow a successful business is to put your employees above all else. Being the place where everyone wants to work and cares about their job is the way to get the most loyal customers. Having the most loyal customers is how you make the most money over the long term. Survivorship bias exists, but look at all the Virgin brands and at places like Google. So for a moment let’…

Putting employees first is socialism. Putting owners first is capitalism.

State ownership of industry is socialism. Richard Brand is every ounce a capitalist. He’s not out there converting his shares into employee shares, let alone into a public ownership. He’s practicing a different kind of capitalism than Enron or Walmart.
Post reply on HN