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Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

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Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#101

Post by brabel »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #14
kzrdude wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About "all the way up to high school", what about the rest? I'm in the camp that it's better for all people, regardless of age actually.

Well in university you are typically an adult and so what your parents think about the study material isn't a great concern, except for the case they are a subject matter expert.

Most university students still behave like kids. I don’t think you can expect under-20 students to behave as adults, honestly. I went to university again around 30 . And my wife teaches first year students. Maybe I am just old now but those students are just kids and behave like large children.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#102

Post by TaupeRanger »

greenbit wrote: post #18

Having observed a fair amount of computer based primary school, it seems to me anyway that the biggest problem is that kids just can't focus properly that way. Even if the machine is locked down to prevent open internet access, it's just too easy for them to become distracted by the medium itself. Books, pencils and paper may not be flashy, but isn't that actually desirable, in this context?

It's arguably LESS distracting, since you can lock down the available actions on a Chromebook, for example, while I was doodling away in my notebooks as a 90's kid. I don't think you can really make sweeping statements about which is better overall.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#103

Post by KurSix »

mentalgear wrote: post #15

I remember that - even though Steve Jobs promoted the iPad as a replacement to the 'heavy schoolbooks kids had to carry all day' - he never allowed his children to use iPads. I bet Zuckerberg doesn't allow his children to use social media. And I assume that Sam Altman won't allow his children to use AI chatbots. What does that tell us?

It's also a reminder that there's often a gap between what technology companies market to the masses and what the people behind those technologies actually endorse for their families

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#104

Post by abenga »

brookst wrote: post #64
mentalgear wrote: post #15

I remember that - even though Steve Jobs promoted the iPad as a replacement to the 'heavy schoolbooks kids had to carry all day' - he never allowed his children to use iPads. I bet Zuckerberg doesn't allow his children to use social media. And I assume that Sam Altman won't allow his children to use AI chatbots. What does that tell us?

Are Jobs, Zuckerberg, and Altman generally seen as experts in childhood development and education?

They are experts in their products.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#105

Post by KurSix »

smatti wrote: post #2

A very similar development is going on in neighboring Finland. There are schools that use almost exclusively paper books (instead of digital ones) again. The overall consensus among parents is that books are way better than screens for kids, all the way up to high school. Hand-writing and free drawing with pen and paper provide many advantages to fixed screens. You cannot open a new tab to Youtube in a book. The sign…

It's clear that there's growing recognition of the drawbacks of too much screen time

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#107

Post by DarkNova6 »

mentalgear wrote: post #15

I remember that - even though Steve Jobs promoted the iPad as a replacement to the 'heavy schoolbooks kids had to carry all day' - he never allowed his children to use iPads. I bet Zuckerberg doesn't allow his children to use social media. And I assume that Sam Altman won't allow his children to use AI chatbots. What does that tell us?

You are assuming they all act as wise and with the foresight of Jobs.

Jobs was a products guy that had an intricate understanding on the relation of people and technology. The others are just finance bro's dressed up in tech clothes.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#108

Post by yodsanklai »

TaupeRanger wrote: post #97
mentalgear wrote: post #15

I remember that - even though Steve Jobs promoted the iPad as a replacement to the 'heavy schoolbooks kids had to carry all day' - he never allowed his children to use iPads. I bet Zuckerberg doesn't allow his children to use social media. And I assume that Sam Altman won't allow his children to use AI chatbots. What does that tell us?

It tells us nothing. People act like this is some big hypocrisy or revelation. First of all, Jobs DID allow his children to use iPads, but it was limited. People take a single quote from the Isaacson biography out of context, assuming that he never let his children have access to iPads at all, forever. Other interviews he gave talked about limiting access - like ALL families should do. Jobs was literally just parenti…

> We also limit access to sugary foods and other things that can be damaging in excess.

Maybe you do, but not everybody does. 19.7% of American kids are obese. The hypocrisy is that tech executives promote and lobby for excessive use of their products (even manufacturing addiction), but know better for their kids.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#109

Post by SoftTalker »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #61
microtonal wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was nodding along until the third point. As a parent it can be really hard to deny your kids to smartphone/tablets when other parents don’t care and all their friends play Roblox, use WhatsApp to communicate, or watch YouTube. Your kid will be the odd one out, missing some shared culture, left out of conversation or meetups they arrange in IM, etc. The government should absolutely forbid social media and addictive…

Part of being a parent is saying no when your children pester you for something you know is bad for them.

Well how do you tell your kid "no" when he asks for candy, when he can get as much as he wants at friend's houses, school, the library, or basically anywhere outside your house?

Edit: better exaple would be cigarettes, since that's something we as a society recognize is bad for kids and generally require proof of age if there is any doubt. Imagine if all your kid's friends smoked, and there were cigarette vending machines at school, and all you could do was say "no."

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#110

Post by gibolt »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #82
weird-eye-issue wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And I assume that Sam Altman won't allow his children to use AI chatbots. I doubt that, but the others seem reasonable

Yeah Sam Altman's kids will use chatbots but here's the difference, your kids no matter the amount of money you're willing to spend will never ever get to use the chatbots Sam Altman's kids will have access to to build their legacy.

Everyone has access to the same models. Even the best internal builds are only a month away from public access.

The ones a year from now from all companies will likely be better than the best today.

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