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Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

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Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#61

Post by tonyedgecombe »

microtonal wrote: post #49
rvz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He (Zuckerberg) doesn't. It tells us that they know that kids should not be using any of this technology as it is extremely addictive to kids who are none the wiser. > What does that tell us? It tells us three things: 1. Do not give a child access to iPads, social media or ChatGPT until they are old enough and are aware of their addictive nature. 2. Get them to read books as an alternative. 3. Being unable to restric…

I was nodding along until the third point. As a parent it can be really hard to deny your kids to smartphone/tablets when other parents don’t care and all their friends play Roblox, use WhatsApp to communicate, or watch YouTube. Your kid will be the odd one out, missing some shared culture, left out of conversation or meetups they arrange in IM, etc. The government should absolutely forbid social media and addictive…

Part of being a parent is saying no when your children pester you for something you know is bad for them.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#63

Post by fifilura »

Buying a book made of trees is very often much more expensive than reading on a screen. Worldreader provides books for free for schools in Africa where they only need to pay for a $40 phone once instead of spending money on books.

https://www.worldreader.org/

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#64

Post by brookst »

mentalgear wrote: post #15

I remember that - even though Steve Jobs promoted the iPad as a replacement to the 'heavy schoolbooks kids had to carry all day' - he never allowed his children to use iPads. I bet Zuckerberg doesn't allow his children to use social media. And I assume that Sam Altman won't allow his children to use AI chatbots. What does that tell us?

Are Jobs, Zuckerberg, and Altman generally seen as experts in childhood development and education?

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#65

Post by [deleted] »

eimrine wrote: post #40
HPsquared wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbh the same applies to a lot of subjects if you discuss them with a sufficiently good LLM. (Socratic method)

LLM is fundamentally not prone to the Socratic method. Socratic method requires both parts to learn something while the discourse. LLM will forget some shit often.

[deleted]

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#66

Post by doikor »

gritspants wrote: post #4
smatti wrote: post #2

A very similar development is going on in neighboring Finland. There are schools that use almost exclusively paper books (instead of digital ones) again. The overall consensus among parents is that books are way better than screens for kids, all the way up to high school. Hand-writing and free drawing with pen and paper provide many advantages to fixed screens. You cannot open a new tab to Youtube in a book. The sign…

I don't see the advantage of learning 'AI workflows'. I am in the US and there seems to be a FOMO plague infecting our school system when it comes to technology. In practice it seems more destructive to the child.

> I don't see the advantage of learning 'AI workflows'.

This would be just the modern version of "Computer class" back in the day when we learned to use word, excel, etc. Just another tool among others that is helpful to learn but should be limited to that specific class.

Though actual sad thing learning from friends with kids is that the modern "computer class" does not actually teach kids to use computers much these days.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#67

Post by s5300 »

mentalgear wrote: post #15

I remember that - even though Steve Jobs promoted the iPad as a replacement to the 'heavy schoolbooks kids had to carry all day' - he never allowed his children to use iPads. I bet Zuckerberg doesn't allow his children to use social media. And I assume that Sam Altman won't allow his children to use AI chatbots. What does that tell us?

[dead]

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#68

Post by jjgreen »

Gigachad wrote: post #56
schnitzelstoat wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they need to learn 'AI workflows' (whatever that means). But I think it makes sense to use the LLM's as a resource. I've used them when studying new languages (human languages not programming languages) and ML algorithms and they've been really useful. Learning to check the citations it gives you is a useful skill too. I wish many adults were more sceptical about the things they are told.

It's true that you can use LLMs as a learning resource and to unblock you. But students just aren't. They are using them as a way to avoid thinking, avoid research, and just spit out an answer they can paste in to their homework.

They should at least require handwritten work, the kids will still be AI-stupid but will at least be able to write.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#69

Post by johanneskanybal »

It sounds good on paper (pun intended) but policy strikes again, "Can my kid bring home her math book so we can work on the parts she's struggling with?" No of course not it lives in a cupboard at school 90% of the time might get some screen shares from it.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#70

Post by andrepd »

Screens and computers are incredibly useful in education when they are used for some concrete purpose. Just think about how incredibly useful it is to use Desmos or Manim to explain certain mathematical concepts, as opposed to chalk on blackboard or print on paper.

Replacing a paper book with the same pdf on an ipad screen though, has to be one of the most stupid ideas anyone could come up with.

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