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Sub-$200 Lidar could reshuffle auto sensor economics

spectrum.ieee.org

101–110 of 582 posts

Re: Sub-$200 Lidar could reshuffle auto sensor economics

#101

Interesting to see the cost curve drop ... this always changes the market. I have been watching the sensor space for a while. Cheap LIDAR units could open up weird DIY uses and not just cars. ALSO regulatory and mapping integration will matter. I tried to work with public datasets and it's messy. The hardware is only one part! BUT it's exciting to see multiple vendors in the space. Competition might push vendors to r…

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Re: Sub-$200 Lidar could reshuffle auto sensor economics

#102
post #90
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RIP to every single camera in existence if that happens. Lidar is awful with damaging camera lenses.

What? Please explain!

Sensor damage

https://youtube.com/shorts/oeHtfMFdzIY?si=hpLBgqom_kHVPuhL

Re: Sub-$200 Lidar could reshuffle auto sensor economics

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had the pleasure of riding a few times in SanFrancisco. The drive was delightful and felt really safe. It handled the SF terrain, traffic and mixed traffic like trams very well. I wouldnt trust a self driving tesla ( or any camera only systems) though!

Why wouldn't you trust a Telsa, millions of people let there Tesla drive them all over USA (not geofences like Waymo) without touching the wheel from parking spot to parking spot everyday. Have you tried it?

> Why wouldn't you trust a Telsa, millions of people let there Tesla drive them all over USA (not geofences like Waymo)

I own a Tesla and paid about $10K for the full self driving capability a few years ago. Yeah, I would not trust a Tesla to drive me from airport to my house. There is a reason Tesla is still stuck at level 2 autonomy certification and not 3, 4 or 5.

Re: Sub-$200 Lidar could reshuffle auto sensor economics

#104
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RIP to every single camera in existence if that happens. Lidar is awful with damaging camera lenses.

Is there any deeper study on long term effects regarding retinal damage? I would imagine, even with safe dosages, there would be some form of cumulative effect in terms of retinal phototoxicity. More so if we consider the scenario that this becomes a standard COTS feature in cars and we are walking around a city centre with a fleet of hundreds of thousands of these laser sources.

Some lidar units simply use the wavelength that the human eye is opaque to.

The grandparent comment is about camera lenses with little to no near infrared cutoff filter. Some older iPhones were like that and that was the original breaking story.

Re: Sub-$200 Lidar could reshuffle auto sensor economics

#105
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say the numbers listed here prove the GPs point of poor enforcement. The largest fine is roughly 0.97% of Meta's 2023 revenue, the equivalent of a $600 fine for somebody making 60k / year. It's a tiny-tiny cost of doing business at best, definitely not a deterrent, given Meta's blatant disregard for GDPR since then.

1% of Meta's global revenue is a tiny-tiny cost of doing business? At that point, I think I can stop even trying to argue here. It's a massive fine any way you put it. Especially when you consider the ceiling hasn't been reached and non compliance is more and more costly by design.

Their net profit was $60billion in 2024. This is peanuts. It can fluctuate by multiples of this fine in a month, depending on whether or not they've had a bad or good month, nevermind year. This pretty much is just a cost of doing business.

Re: Sub-$200 Lidar could reshuffle auto sensor economics

#106
post #6

Oh hell yeah, we can finally stop the braindead attempts to make a safe self-driving car with just cameras.

Yes, silly using just cameras, I mean humans have Lidar sensors, that why they can drive, why didn't new just copy that....oh wait. It all seriousness though, Tesla are producing cyber cabs now which are 10th the price of Waymo's and can drive autonomously anywhere in the world. I think we can see where this is going. (Hint: not well for Waymo) Also the article is speculative 'MicroVision says its sensor could one da…

> Yes, silly using just cameras, I mean humans have Lidar sensors, that why they can drive, why didn't new just copy that....oh wait.

Humans don't have wheels and cannot go 70MPH. Humans also don't have rear view cameras and cannot process video feeds from 8 cameras simultaneously. The point of these machines is to be better than humans for transportation. If adding LIDAR means that these vehicles can see better than humans and avoid accidents that humans do get into, then I for one want them in my vehicle.

Re: Sub-$200 Lidar could reshuffle auto sensor economics

#107
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, I guess, even more advanced surveillance.

I think we’re well past the point where mass surveillance was a technical challenge. Mass oppression through autonomous violence however…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_(robot)

Re: Sub-$200 Lidar could reshuffle auto sensor economics

#108
post #91
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humanity has never known a world without surveillance. Responsibility cannot exist without being watched. Primitive tribes lived under the constant eye of the group, and agricultural eras relied on the strict oversight of the clan. Modern states simply adopted new tools for an ancient necessity. A society without monitoring is a society without accountability, which only leads to the Hobbesian trap of endless conflic…

That's an incredibly bullshit argument to defend the indefensible.

Your reaction actually proves the point. Aggression thrives in anonymous spaces because the lack of oversight removes the weight of accountability. When people feel unobserved, they quickly abandon the social friction that once held tribes and clans together. You are essentially providing a live demonstration of why a society without any form of monitoring inevitably slides into the Hobbesian trap.

Re: Sub-$200 Lidar could reshuffle auto sensor economics

#109

There are laser measurers sold for a few buck on Temu. Robot vacuums sold for few hundred dollars have Lidars that map out the room in a seconds. Is there any actual technical reason why automobile Lidar be expensive? Just combine visual processing with single point sampler that will feed points of interest and accurate model of the surroundings will be built.

Probably one factor is range. The article talks about 200-300m range, a robot vacuum has maybe 10m best case?

Re: Sub-$200 Lidar could reshuffle auto sensor economics

#110
post #93

There are laser measurers sold for a few buck on Temu. Robot vacuums sold for few hundred dollars have Lidars that map out the room in a seconds. Is there any actual technical reason why automobile Lidar be expensive? Just combine visual processing with single point sampler that will feed points of interest and accurate model of the surroundings will be built.

I know that automotive parts of the standard requirement to withstand 80°C (or 120°C for military use). A robot vacuum working in a living room can probably be made cheaper because it does not have to face as harsh environments? Also, range is probably a factor. In a living room, you probably need something like 20m max. You car should "see" farther.

Sure, these are the assumptions but silicon is silicon, copper is copper and solder is solder. They don't use easy melting electronics in vacuums and hardened stuff in cars, the tech is about the same unless it is supposed to work in highly radioactive environment. The plastics are different but car interiors are full of plastics, so its unlikely that the costs of temperature resistant plastics needed for this is more than a cupholder.

As for the range, again pretty powerful lasers are sold for sub 10SUD prices on retail. I am sure that there must be higher calibration and precision requirements as the distance increase but is it really order of magnitudes higher? 120 meters laser measurer with 1cm accuracy is 15 Euros on Temu and that thing has an LCD screen and a battery as a handheld device. How much distance do you actually need?

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