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A theoretical way to circumvent Android developer verification

enaix.github.io

101–110 of 185 posts

Re: A theoretical way to circumvent Android developer verification

#101
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same EU that's doing Chat Control?

The EU is a big place, run by a lot of different people, with true separation of powers. They don't have a president-king who can just ignore court decisions.

So we're gonna get access to Von Der Layen Pfizer sms right?

Were you offered to vote for Von Der Layen by the way?

Re: A theoretical way to circumvent Android developer verification

#102
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A secure OS is a prerequisite for secure digital services. We can agree on that, right? The task, therefore, is to convince enough politicians to establish an independent unit that can address this issue without direct political influence. Fund the unit with enough money so that it can take care of the cybersecurity and sovereignty of all citizens. A side effect of this would hopefully be that these politicians would…

> A secure OS is a prerequisite for secure digital services. We can agree on that, right? Secure for who, and from whom? Remote Attestation and Developer Verification both make Android OS and platform more secure against malicious actors that would want to defeat the guarantees the platform gives, guarantees that enable secure digital services. Yes, this includes protecting the banking services and DRM media services…

did you understand and disagree with the third paragraph? if so, could you say in what way it didn't completely answer the question you just asked?

Re: A theoretical way to circumvent Android developer verification

#103
I am not a app developer however from what I read on the android developer site you just need to provide some form of id, the singing key and the app id.

You don't have to distribute via the app store, you dont have to get Googles permission to publish the app or have them sign it.

This looks like purely app validation, we only run apps we can prove originate from the author.

Re: A theoretical way to circumvent Android developer verification

#104
post #3

While it is technically feasible, it is not a good idea to try and find a technical solution to a people/organisation problem. Do not accept the premise of assholes. I hope we can get the EU to fund a truly open Android Fork. Maybe under some organisation similar to NL Labs. --- edit --- Furthermore, the need for a trustworthy binary to be auditable to a certain hash or something would make banning this a simple task…

I hope the EU actually enforces the DMA and forces Google and Apple to stop their non sense.

Re: A theoretical way to circumvent Android developer verification

#105
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is a big place, run by a lot of different people, with true separation of powers. They don't have a president-king who can just ignore court decisions.

So we're gonna get access to Von Der Layen Pfizer sms right? Were you offered to vote for Von Der Layen by the way?

For all the disdain I have for her, Von Der Layen is the candidate put forward by the PPE, the majoritarian party in the EU parliament. So, yes, people were indeed allowed to vote.

Re: A theoretical way to circumvent Android developer verification

#106
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is a big place, run by a lot of different people, with true separation of powers. They don't have a president-king who can just ignore court decisions.

So we're gonna get access to Von Der Layen Pfizer sms right? Were you offered to vote for Von Der Layen by the way?

The EU is a parliamentary democracy. Von Der Leyen was proposed by the democratically elected heads of the member states. She was approved by the democratically elected parliament.

The chancellor in Germany is also not directly elected by majority vote but by parliament.

Its a reasonable criticism that the EU structures make democratic legitimisation very indirect, but that is at least partly a result of the EU being a club of sovereign democracies. The central tension was extremely evident during the Greek debt crisis, you have a change in government in Greece, but due to EU level constraints they can't enact a change in policy. More independent power ininstitutions less dependent on the member state, means the sovereign democratic national governments can't act on their local democratic mandates.

Re: A theoretical way to circumvent Android developer verification

#107
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same EU that's doing Chat Control?

The same EU of which parts are trying to make chat control work and are once again abandoning it. Politician get this particular fancy idea every other year in all kinds of countries, not just EU. Overreach out of desperation for a problem that cannot simply be solved is wrong but understandable.

Desperation for what exactly? More control?

Re: A theoretical way to circumvent Android developer verification

#108
post #59

I think this means we need to rely on web technologies more. PWAs are looking pretty good on mobile devices these days and you can publish any web app you want with no reviewing authority. The web has a bunch of crazy APIs now that let you build crazy things and for everything else you're a hosted server away somewhere that can run more complex jobs. I believe devices I own should let me do whatever I want with them…

You need native apps to access specific hardware, and to run some native code. WASM may help but it's limited, too.

How many apps rely on specific hardware or native code though? I can only think of my banking apps when using nfc.

Re: A theoretical way to circumvent Android developer verification

#109
post #3

While it is technically feasible, it is not a good idea to try and find a technical solution to a people/organisation problem. Do not accept the premise of assholes. I hope we can get the EU to fund a truly open Android Fork. Maybe under some organisation similar to NL Labs. --- edit --- Furthermore, the need for a trustworthy binary to be auditable to a certain hash or something would make banning this a simple task…

Technical things can affect people. Adversarial interoperability. They're using a technical thing to cause a social thing anyway, and fighting back with the same tactics is at least not surrendering.

Re: A theoretical way to circumvent Android developer verification

#110

I think this means we need to rely on web technologies more. PWAs are looking pretty good on mobile devices these days and you can publish any web app you want with no reviewing authority. The web has a bunch of crazy APIs now that let you build crazy things and for everything else you're a hosted server away somewhere that can run more complex jobs. I believe devices I own should let me do whatever I want with them…

I thought Brent Simmons did a great job laying out why PWAs don't work: https://inessential.com/2025/10/04/why-netnewswire-is-not-we... The tl;dr is that a PWA implies an app which is based in the cloud. So suddenly you need a server, and you need to store user data, which means costs and dealing with privacy and security.

Basically every native app has a server behind it to harvest user data nowadays. So I don’t think it’s an argument for why PWAs won’t work.
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