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Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

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Re: Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

#101

Post by dark-star »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #68
kuschku wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why it's recommended to combine a half dose of ibuprofen and a half dose of paracetamol at the same time. (Plus some vitamin C) Together they have higher pain killung effects than each alone, and the side effects are reduced as they affect different body parts. And the vitamin C reduces the damage to the stomach lining.

Or if you need stronger painkilling you can take a full dose of paracetomol and either ibuprofen or aspirin. OTOH aspirin and ibuprofen use the same pathways so combining a full dose of ibuprofen and aspirin is not recommended.

Interesting, then why does Aspirin do almost nothing when I have a headache, while Ibuprofen works very well and very quickly?

Re: Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

#102

Post by littlestymaar »

lr4444lr wrote: post #39
Terr_ wrote: post #18

I've always had an (unreasonable?) dislike of Paracetamol/Tylenol ever since I found out it was the #1 cause of acute liver failure in the US. Liver failure is scary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol_poisoning

It's not just that it causes liver failure: it's that the difference between the therapeutic dosing range for pain relief it's prescribed for is dangerously close to the toxicity level. Other drugs like theophylline have ceased to be prescribed for a similar reason alternatives were available, but due to drug marketing, acetaminophen is touted as the "safe" pain reliever.

> but due to drug marketing, acetaminophen is touted as the "safe" pain reliever.

Paracetamol's patents have expired long ago and there's not much profit to be made out of it (nowadays it's mostly not being made in the West, but imported from China, unlike profitable medicine).

The reason why it's still used it's that it's much better than the alternatives, despite the risks (it's only risky if you don't respect the doses by the way).

Re: Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

#103

Post by verbify »

whazor wrote: post #76
Terr_ wrote: post #18

I've always had an (unreasonable?) dislike of Paracetamol/Tylenol ever since I found out it was the #1 cause of acute liver failure in the US. Liver failure is scary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol_poisoning

This send me into a whole rabbit hole. Mostly children get paracetamol overdose. Then I learned that in US/UK kids get paracetamol in liquid form with all kinds of flavours. Which is much harder to dose correctly when the kid spits or drools it out. Total culture shock for me, as in Europe the default for children is rectal ingestion (which is probably a culture shock as well for Americans). Any how, with pills it is…

Recently had a prescription error with my two month old baby. The doctor prescribed 7 times as much iron supplement as they intended (confusing labelling - so while I'm annoyed, I can see how it happened). This went on for a month until we uncovered the error.

We had blood test done (on the doctor's recommendation), and luckily there is no sign of any damage, but prescription errors do happen (even if they are rare) and it's much easier with liquids (you probably wouldn't give 8 pills to a baby, but 8ml doesn't seem so bad).

Re: Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

#104

Post by Lammy »

astrange wrote: post #85
mctt wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, https://www.thisamericanlife.org/505/use-only-as-directed The episode shows how even small overdoses of acetaminophen can cause fatal liver damage, while decades of FDA delays and confusing drug labeling left millions of Americans at risk.

Tylenol is very safe if taken as prescribed. The overdose amount is relatively low, but not uniquely low. The alternatives are worse - ibuprofen destroys your stomach lining if taken at the regular dose for too long.

> ibuprofen destroys your stomach lining if taken at the regular dose for too long.

This is how the VA killed my dad :/

Re: Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

#105

Post by littlestymaar »

pjerem wrote: post #51
jonkoops wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with all things, the poison is in the dose. A tonne of incredibly useful medicine can kill you if dosed incorrectly.

Sure but it’s pretty easy overdose on paracetamol. Since it’s a mild and really common painkiller, sometimes seen as not dangerous, someone uneducated about it who is really suffering could easily take 3 or 4 times the dose. Unlike a lot of drugs, you are not going to have a lot of immediate side effects if you overdose on paracetamol. You’ll just horribly die some days after,

> someone uneducated about it who is really suffering could easily take 3 or 4 times the dose.

And the solution is simple: educate people about that.

And it's not something hard to do, just have pharmacists say “respect the dose as it will kill you if you don't” every time they sell things and it'll work.

Re: Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

#106

Post by moritzwarhier »

davikr wrote: post #69
moritzwarhier wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting how you put metamizole at #1 for long-term treatment. As far as my experience goes, many doctors do the same in Germany. On the other hand, I've heard that the medication is banned in many other countries. I guess the safest way is to take up the treatment in a hospital, to check for immediate bad reactions. On the other hand, like with many medications, severe allergies and individual sensibilities causi…

Metamizole is safe to take on the long-term, which is not the case for NSAIDs (nephrotoxic) and corticosteroids.

I guess that's why metamizole is often a part of the standard treatment for mid-term exogenic pain here, for example after injuries or during some treatments involving pain.

Not addictive, not hepatotoxic, not nephrotoxic.

Seems the reason for the ban / harder regulation in some countries is about the disturbance of blood-forming in some individuals (which can also be deadly, but I have no idea of the quantified risk here).

Ibuprofen and acetaminophen are more common for short-term treatment, at least that's what I've been taught.

Avoid taking them on a schedule, take them as needed and at the lowest effective dosage.

A.s.s. (lol) too, apart from the low-dose usage that some claim to be helpful with heart/artery diseases.

Re: Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

#108

Post by crmd »

more_corn wrote: post #33
GeekyBear wrote: post #7

It's probably worth mentioning that this drug is called Acetaminophen in the US, and is the active ingredient in Tylenol and other over the counter medicines.

[flagged]

I had kidney stone surgery (laser lithotripsy) in Manhattan last Friday morning and literally the first thing I was given after changing into the paper gown was 2 500mg Tylenol pills and a cup of water. I don’t know if you’re a physician but the medical staff in manhattan tend to be at the top of their game, and they are cool with Tylenol.

Re: Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

#109

Post by adaml_623 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #71
adaml_623 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Provide a reference please. Which country is that from?

USA, what my wife’s OB told her. 20 years ago.

Oh I was hoping for a written down reference from an organisation responsible for giving medical advice rather than an single doctor.

Re: Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

#110

Post by mullingitover »

Terr_ wrote: post #18

I've always had an (unreasonable?) dislike of Paracetamol/Tylenol ever since I found out it was the #1 cause of acute liver failure in the US. Liver failure is scary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol_poisoning

The UK started requiring that Tylenol always be sold in blister packs instead of convenient-to-kill-yourself-with whole bottles of pills.

Results: "Suicidal deaths from paracetamol and salicylates were reduced by 22% (95% confidence interval 11% to 32%) in the year after the change in legislation on 16 September 1998, and this reduction persisted in the next two years. Liver unit admissions and liver transplants for paracetamol induced hepatotoxicity were reduced by around 30% in the four years after the legislation. Numbers of paracetamol and salicylate tablets in non-fatal overdoses were reduced in the three years after the legislation. Large overdoses were reduced by 20% (9% to 29%) for paracetamol and by 39% (14% to 57%) for salicylates in the second and third years after the legislation. Ibuprofen overdoses increased after the legislation, but with little or no effect on deaths."[1]

[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC526120/

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