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Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

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Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#101

Post by mprovost »

lan321 wrote: post #84
waste_monk wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the issue is more the batteries and weight distribution. That is, EVs usually have the batteries along the length of the chassis to spread the load out, which is not practical to retrofit onto an ICE car. And if you fill the engine bay on an ICE car with battery packs during the conversion, the weight distribution will be extremely uneven and cause trouble with the suspension and related components, poor ha…

Yeah, I don't believe even OEMs ever managed to make a very liked electric car on an ICE platform.

At least in the UK the Kia Niro comes in petrol, plug-in hybrid, and full EV versions of the same chassis. It seems like most Uber drivers in London have replaced their hybrid Prius with an EV Niro.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#102

Post by themafia »

judge123 wrote: post #4

I'm starting to think the short software support isn't a bug, it's a feature. They want the car to feel obsolete in 5 years so you're pushed into buying the next model. It's the smartphone sales model, but for a $50,000 purchase.

It's everywhere.

You design a new transmission to comply with federal regulations. The transmission is mostly an upgrade of previous designs and built in cooperation with multiple vendors. It's actually not a bad unit.

Which is a problem because it will be too reliable. So you take a small accessory component, like a valve body, and you undersize it and built it out of inappropriate materials. It now starves the transmission, causes it to run hot, and the nice transmission cooks itself to death under even the slightest load.

The hope is you won't even bother to buy and install a new $7000 part. Just scrap the car and get a new one!

If you're buying a new vehicle, find your favorite search engine, then search for "car model year reliability upgrade." You're almost certainly going to want to get a few of those done if you expect the car to be driving in more than 5 years.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#103

Post by Max-q »

zdw wrote: post #2

I'm fearing the day when my quite old ICE car dies and I end up in a situation where the best option is a newer car that is a computer on wheels running software that I know will stop getting updates very quickly. Of all the new cars ideas I've seen recently, only the Slate mini-truck seems to be taking a minimalist approach, with no fancy head unit or navigation system.

Reminds me of old Mercedes and BWMs with built-in NMT phones in their console. The cars lasted a lot longer than the NMT standard for mobile phones.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#104

Post by prmoustache »

justforfunhere wrote: post #21

I know of some modern vehicles that will not start at all if you go about removing the telematics unit. I am not sure how long will it take before you will not be able to buy a vehicle at all without having to consent to being monitored remotely 24x7, but it will happen sooner than later. And this coming from a developing country. Pretty sure it is much worse in the developed world. I guess the market for second hand…

Bicycles also count as vehicles and not all of them have electronics. There are some decent low tech ones at different price ranges:

https://www.rivbike.com/collections/current-models

https://velo-orange.com/collections/frames-1

https://shop.fairdalebikes.com/collections/fairdale-bikes

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#105

Post by SomeUserName432 »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #10

The govt should fund $1,000,000 bug bounties on these vehicles. If anyone succeeds in remotely gaining access to the mic, car companies are fined $100,000,000.

Isn't it quite the opposite right now?

Even attempting responsible disclosure on vulnerabilities when it comes to cars can quickly result in a gag order.

[Citation needed, but not hard to google, been discussed here before]

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#106

Post by gambiting »

zeroflow wrote: post #65
justforfunhere wrote: post #21

I know of some modern vehicles that will not start at all if you go about removing the telematics unit. I am not sure how long will it take before you will not be able to buy a vehicle at all without having to consent to being monitored remotely 24x7, but it will happen sooner than later. And this coming from a developing country. Pretty sure it is much worse in the developed world. I guess the market for second hand…

It seems to be coming in multiple waves from multiple sides. One of those is EUs ISA: First a display, now a warning and later actual interference with the driver. And with the experiences with the current status are enough for me to be against those systems. The car doing an emergency stop because it saw a 30 sign an an adjacent road makes me not wanna purchase such a car. But there will be some time where no altern…

>>And with the experiences with the current status are enough for me to be against those systems. The car doing an emergency stop because it saw a 30 sign an an adjacent road makes me not wanna purchase such a car.

Just to be clear - I hate these systems. They are unnecessary, don't improve safety, and increase the cost of new cars for everyone.

But, no system in any car works the way you described it. Even if the car recognizes a speed limit sign from an adjecent street(which happens all the time and I have experienced it too) - the only thing that will happen is that it will bong at you, it won't do "an emergency stop". The more hardcore version of the EU laws around it will require cars to stop applying throttle when going faster than the limit, but literally no legislation proposed or implemented now or in the future requires the cars to actively slow down(ie - apply brakes without your input).

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#107

Post by gambiting »

jinzo wrote: post #61
jvdvegt wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose such system is mandatory in a car when it's sold , such after sales changes would be fine as safety is not directly impacted. Source: my daily drive is a car without a modem on European roads, no problem.

All modifications to the car (in most, if not all EU countries) need to be homologated (eg. approved) by the authorities. So yes, removing eCall from a modern vehicle is (legally speaking) a lot different than driving one that came without it.

Obviously, that's a nice theory but as we both know in practice there's a lot of modified cars on the roads in all kinds of way and they pass their annual inspections fine - even insurers cover them as long as you disclose the modification.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#108

Post by echoangle »

mook wrote: post #59
dangus wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the direction that the software is going in. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/05/carplay-ultra-the-nex...

CarPlay Ultra sounds like it's extending it further? That is, it's still essentially VNC† with some data fed from the car and rendered by the phone, but now with multi-monitor support. † it's more complicated than that, but still a dumb framebuffer.

I can't imagine that the image shown in CarPlay Ultra is still rendered on the phone. It's used to show all driving relevant things (speed etc.). Is a wireless connection to the phone reliable enough so this would be allowed by regulators?

I thought the main image would be rendered on the car using local data and only the entertainment stuff is transferred from the phone.

And also, how would you drive your car without the phone if everything is rendered on the phone? Would they implement an entire backup dashboard for this? I thought it would always show the CarPlay Ultra interface, even when no phone is connected.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#109

Post by M95D »

0xEF wrote: post #85
achierius wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concretely, why not? If you don't get updates, there's nothing to break the thing -- and if you don't have a network connection, you don't need the security updates.

I would be on board with this if the system was not touching the outside world, but it does every time you hook a smartphone to it or if you have an optional data network. Just like with our smartphones, there's nothing stopping a car company from pushing system-damaging updates when they want to steer us toward buying a new vehicle since that one is too outdated/no longer supported. What you say can be true about a…

I'm not opposed to a player connected to a phone or other network, but that player doesn't need to be on the CAN bus, or any other car bus. Car speed for volume control, steering wheel buttons, lights, etc. can be communicated from the car to the player via dedicated wires (on/off, pwm, voltage ladder, etc.) like they did it in the early 2000s.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#110

Post by M95D »

pabs3 wrote: post #33
achierius wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concretely, why not? If you don't get updates, there's nothing to break the thing -- and if you don't have a network connection, you don't need the security updates.

You might need security updates for security systems, like immobilisers, keyless entry etc.

The only security update for those is removal. Immobilizers via RFID chip were never broken AFAIK.
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