Live data from Hacker News

Flea-Scope: $18 Source Available USB Oscilloscope, Logic Analyzer and More [pdf]

rtestardi.github.io

101–110 of 112 posts

Re: Flea-Scope: $18 Source Available USB Oscilloscope, Logic Analyzer and More [pdf]

#101
post #88

Anything I can buy for $50?

The Amazon letter soup of the month is FNIRSI - I am questioning whether they are actually a letter soup brand. They have a bunch of impossibly cheap hand-held tools, including oscilloscopes. I picked up their multi-meter and power supply and they actually work.

I've seen FNIRSI products in videos by Matthias Wandel (woodgears.ca) on his second channel after the company sent some of them for free to test. They compare relatively well, especially for the price but are be no means perfect. I assume they're still a rebadged letter soup product, but they seem to be trying to get some recognition for the name.

Re: Flea-Scope: $18 Source Available USB Oscilloscope, Logic Analyzer and More [pdf]

#102
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you either want to get into electronics or not. If not, there's no real point in spending the money, even if it's $2 It's fuzzier than that; there are hobbies that look fun but I can't decide if I want to fully invest into them, but having a cheap, but not-great equipment is a good stepping stone. Besides, beginners won't have the skill to fully use fully-featured pro-level-gear. A cheap soldering iron is great for…

> having a cheap, but not-great equipment is a good stepping stone. I don't agree for something like this. The problem is that beginners often don't understand how to deal with the limitations of equipment--all they understand is that something is wonky and they don't know how to fix it. In addition, bad equipment can make your initial impressions so painful that they prevent you from going further. Oscilloscopes, ch…

Regarding soldering, I think a Pinecil [1] is a suitable soldering iron for beginners. It's affordable and since the heating element is in the tip it will make soldering much easier compared to older irons or soldering stations.

[1]: https://pine64.com/product/pinecil-smart-mini-portable-solde...

Re: Flea-Scope: $18 Source Available USB Oscilloscope, Logic Analyzer and More [pdf]

#103
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new Rigol DHO800 series are fabulous bargains for the money, and extremely well designed in a lot of ways: - 12 bit ADC frontends - Actually usable touchscreen inputs - Super simple to drive remotely over a network connection (though getting the IP address with just the touchscreen is a little tricky) - USB-C power input - you can run it from a battery pack if you like! - All the essential decoders built in for f…

I also got one last year. It's a hundred times better than the little ones discussed in this test.

I started out buying little cheapy toy scopes when I started tinkering with electronics and I wish I’d just waited and saved for a proper one.

Way more useable, especially having proper probes.

I get it - I’m in the first world, unlimited money and privilege, yada yada - but if you think you realistically can save $400 USD for a scope like this, you should.

Re: Flea-Scope: $18 Source Available USB Oscilloscope, Logic Analyzer and More [pdf]

#104

Hi all, new here. One post below might be a bit misleading -- it's just 18 Msps, not 100 -- so think of it as good for signals up to 1 MHz or so with decent fidelity... And it uses a PIC32, not STM32. It is 12 bit ADC, but the noise floor makes it more like 10 or 11. A cool thing is it also does digital capture and waveform generation at the same time, but clearly it's all pretty simple... My goal was to be able to g…

I think the low cost of the flea-scope justifies sticking to just one analog input per device, even with a successor, provided that the interface gets a little bit of an upgrade to be able to handle multiple scopes at once. This would retain the small form factor and would keep the design free from compromises.

Wow, I love this idea -- I bet I could make an alternate UI display two analog waveforms from two devices instead of analog and digital from one... I don't think it would even require threading complexity, since the second device will only trigger after the first already has!

Re: Flea-Scope: $18 Source Available USB Oscilloscope, Logic Analyzer and More [pdf]

#106
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you either want to get into electronics or not. If not, there's no real point in spending the money, even if it's $2 It's fuzzier than that; there are hobbies that look fun but I can't decide if I want to fully invest into them, but having a cheap, but not-great equipment is a good stepping stone. Besides, beginners won't have the skill to fully use fully-featured pro-level-gear. A cheap soldering iron is great for…

Ironically, beginners would benefit the most from a good soldering station, proper liquid flux and leaded solder. Seasoned electronics guys can probably solder anything with a cigarette lighter and a scrap piece of metal, but using proper tools makes a huge difference when you're just starting and might mean not dropping the hobby altogether because of a lousy first experience..

> Seasoned electronics guys can probably solder anything with a cigarette lighter and a scrap piece of metal

This made me laugh. In college in the late 80's I repaired a roommate's not-quite vintage C64 fastloader cartridge with a bad wire bodge using a lighter and the tine of a dining hall fork...

Re: Flea-Scope: $18 Source Available USB Oscilloscope, Logic Analyzer and More [pdf]

#107
Looks like the schematic and PCB layout are in "Diptrace", which isn't a piece of software I'd heard of before. I'd much prefer Kicad for anything claiming to be hacker-friendly or source-available. It appears this Diptrace software does have a pretty much unlimited 30-day trial, which is preferrable to Altium or Orcad, and I appreciate that they actually sell their software with a perpetual license like buying old shrink-wrapped CDs instead of some subscription hell. But Kicad is so compelling these days.

The Diptrace trial does support exporting various Altium/Orcad/Kicad/Eagle/PADS/Protel/Mentor netlists and file formats, but it would almost be easier to re-draw and re-route the design in your PCB software of choice.

I downloaded the trial and opened it up, the schematic is remarkably simple:

https://i.imgur.com/8EudXIZ.png

The un-named nets and complete lack of concern for crossing other nets is certainly one way to draw a design. On the one hand, it all fits in a single image and is pretty beginner-friendly, on the other hand, a hierarchical schematic with named nets makes it much easier to take in and reason about a single section of the design.

The PCB is simple as well, it's just a 2-layer design with all traces routed at 8 mils and generous vias at 10 mil drill/25 mil pad. Unfortunately, being a compact 2-layer design, it doesn't have good power planes, and worse yet it doesn't even try to have a ground pour at all. Here's the ground/VSS routing:

https://i.imgur.com/BcKm8vL.png

VDD/power makes a literal loop around much of the waveform output and near the scope input pins:

https://i.imgur.com/E2UK9Ot.png

I know performance isn't the primary goal of this device, but these decisions are probably leaving a lot on the table. (And here's the bottom routing for completeness: https://i.imgur.com/qxwJvpU.png)

Your eyes do not deceive you, the pin headers aren't in a straight line, they wobble up and down with every other pin 9 mils higher or lower than the previous pin. This probably makes assembly a little simpler because the pin headers will comfortably fit in the 0.0354" holes, but the insulators will flex and hold them in place even when the board is inverted to solder the bottom half, but might put some tension on the solder joints if you wanted to stack a daughterboard on it.

The main U5/U6 connectors are spaced out by 0.9" in Y and aligned in X, the -5V power connector is conveniently aligned in Y with U6 and skips two 0.1" pins in X if you wanted to include that in the design (or try to stick the whole thing in a breadboard). The J3/J4 jumpers/headers by the USB connector are on the same 0.1" grid, but inconveniently not aligned with U6 for deep integration in a breadboard or daughterboard and power isolation through a lab power supply. I do appreciate the inclusion of J10 as an extra ground pin J10 off in the corner - you weren't doing anything with that space anyways, and that's sure to come in useful for someone poking at a circuit with a meter or wiring something up!

A notable feature at this price point is the inclusion of a charge pump to generate -5V, I expected a 0-5V range with nominal rail-to-rail opamp rather than positive and negative voltages. I suppose this is persuasive when working with audio signals, which is probably a significant use case for this device. But again, the circuitous (ha) route to the opamp by the noisy VS- output signal and the decoupling and power supply to the charge pump chip U4 are not helping the performance. I doubt it would pass FCC certification, but it doesn't really have to.

All in all, a pretty neat little device at an impressive price point! Don't take my criticisms as complaining, I meant it to be constructive - well done making cool stuff and putting it on the internet!

Re: Flea-Scope: $18 Source Available USB Oscilloscope, Logic Analyzer and More [pdf]

#108

Hi all, new here. One post below might be a bit misleading -- it's just 18 Msps, not 100 -- so think of it as good for signals up to 1 MHz or so with decent fidelity... And it uses a PIC32, not STM32. It is 12 bit ADC, but the noise floor makes it more like 10 or 11. A cool thing is it also does digital capture and waveform generation at the same time, but clearly it's all pretty simple... My goal was to be able to g…

My goal was to be able to get these in a classroom at every seat

This is really amazing and you are to be commended. And you've clearly thought hard about what can make that successful. There's just no replacement for every student having their own setup to experiment with. My first exposure to o-scopes, the whole class was basically sharing one giant Tek 7k series scope, one of the best of the time (with commiserate cost), and while I did learn the basics, it wasn't till I had my own much, much less feature filled scope did I learn it well enough to be useful.

N.B.: Since you're new here, I'll just warn you that it's SoP around here that any time anyone posts an "I built this", the comments will be filled with nitpicks about trivial issues presented as massive errors, people telling you how much better they would have done it if they ever got around to doing it and how they got something cheaper on alibaba so why bother. And, of course, you should have written it in Rust. Just ignore that stuff.

Re: Flea-Scope: $18 Source Available USB Oscilloscope, Logic Analyzer and More [pdf]

#109
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> having a cheap, but not-great equipment is a good stepping stone. I don't agree for something like this. The problem is that beginners often don't understand how to deal with the limitations of equipment--all they understand is that something is wonky and they don't know how to fix it. In addition, bad equipment can make your initial impressions so painful that they prevent you from going further. Oscilloscopes, ch…

Could someone recommend one starting out (something beginner could use and has enough, good functions for continued use into later advanced projects without running into limitations for 'most' projects). Would be helpful to understand the what limitations might be encountered such at the frequency.

Buy a Pinecile[1] from Pine64. It's currently discounted to $25.99 (excluding shipping), and it's both cheap and has a great feature list that makes soldering a breeze.

1. https://pine64.com/product/pinecil-smart-mini-portable-solde...

Re: Flea-Scope: $18 Source Available USB Oscilloscope, Logic Analyzer and More [pdf]

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this exact one, and I don't reccomend using it with the Saleae Logic software, it constantly drops out and has issues enumerating. Haven't tried sigrock yet.

I too have the same one, and had endless problems till I switched to a shorter USB cable and suddenly everything was fine. I think the firmware might have some timing issue with the USB bus, and just a few extra nanoseconds of a 2 foot long cable seems to break it.

Thanks, all of the mini usb cables I've tried are fairly long (~1m). I'll try and find a short one and see if it fixes it.
Post reply on HN