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Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

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Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#101

Post by do_not_redeem »

bdangubic wrote: post #94
do_not_redeem wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your point of view is that businesses shouldn't be allowed to give customers choices that have different costs and charge them fairly? Every option has to cost exactly the same for everyone? How do you feel about shipping options then? Should Amazon charge the same for 5-day ground as they do for overnight shipping?

you do realize you are comparing apples to oranges? charging customers for usage of credit card is specifically forbidden so any business doing is in breach of contract!! this has nothing to do with shipping options. you cannot charge me money for using a credit card mate, it is 2024 (soon to be 2025).

So your arguments are:

1. Visa/MC should be allowed to overcharge and we should all accept it because Visa/MC said so in their contracts.

2. You like using credit cards, and things that you personally like should be free in 2024, and other people should pay extra to subsidize your personal preferences.

I'm not convinced. I don't think your personal preferences will be enough to reverse the trend of businesses charging fair prices for different payment methods either. But you're welcome to try.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#102

Post by thankyoufriend »

jaco6 wrote: post #19

I work at a Dominos and we of course accept and expect tips on delivery, because without tips the drivers would make But at checkout for carryout orders the card terminal also now opens a tip menu. I would never tip on this screen because the employees are already paid a true hourly wage, albeit a low one, not a server rate that is below minimum wage. Furthermore there is no way for the customer to know if the employ…

As another commenter crudely pointed out with their "not my problem", your boss is supposed to make up the difference between your FWIW, I always tip 20% because that's the society I grew up in, but it always leave a bad taste in my mouth when I'm not exactly sure what I'm tipping for, my wage has been stagnant for several years and all of my own costs are going up. Ultimately it just leads to me going out less, which I think is a net negative for my local service economy. It's hard to justify $20+ for a single meal when I easily can turn that into 4-5 meals at home.

[1] https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/15-tipped-emplo...

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#103

Post by mckn1ght »

bdangubic wrote: post #51
TheDong wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 3% fee for a card makes perfect sense to me. That's not far off from what the merchant is losing for credit card customers, so their options are: 1. Charge the same for credit cards as cash, and make cash paying customers effectively pay more, thus applying a regressive tax to the poor (who are less likely to have credit cards) 2. Charge more for the credit card paying customers, and they can avoid this extra payme…

3% is the cost of doing business. you wanna charge customers for electricity too? what’s that - like 1% more? uniform / apron cleaning - 0.12%? anything else? :)

> 3% is the cost of doing business.

Yes, it's a cost you pay at some places to do business with them using your credit card.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#104

Post by the_snooze »

xscott wrote: post #6

The other one I'm seeing lately is a semi-stealth "service charge" on the bill. Something like 18% to 20% added to the bill without really standing out. This used to be something they'd do for "larger parties", but now I'm seeing it even when I'm eating solo. This makes for an uncomfortable situation where I now have to ask the waiter or bartender if they receive this as a tip. Then I need to decide if I want to tip…

>This makes for an uncomfortable situation where I now have to ask the waiter or bartender if they receive this as a tip.

I don't even ask. If it looks like a tip and is computed like a tip, it is one. How the owners and workers hash out their payment structure is none of my business as a customer.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#105

Post by Brian_K_White »

bdangubic wrote: post #51
TheDong wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 3% fee for a card makes perfect sense to me. That's not far off from what the merchant is losing for credit card customers, so their options are: 1. Charge the same for credit cards as cash, and make cash paying customers effectively pay more, thus applying a regressive tax to the poor (who are less likely to have credit cards) 2. Charge more for the credit card paying customers, and they can avoid this extra payme…

3% is the cost of doing business. you wanna charge customers for electricity too? what’s that - like 1% more? uniform / apron cleaning - 0.12%? anything else? :)

Incorrect. Visa charges 2.5-3%. It's not part of the burrito like the electricity.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#106

Post by bdangubic »

mckn1ght wrote: post #103
bdangubic wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3% is the cost of doing business. you wanna charge customers for electricity too? what’s that - like 1% more? uniform / apron cleaning - 0.12%? anything else? :)

> 3% is the cost of doing business. Yes, it's a cost you pay at some places to do business with them using your credit card.

didn’t realize I had to spell it out like this - yes, exactly. thanks

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#107

Post by bdangubic »

do_not_redeem wrote: post #101
bdangubic wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you do realize you are comparing apples to oranges? charging customers for usage of credit card is specifically forbidden so any business doing is in breach of contract!! this has nothing to do with shipping options. you cannot charge me money for using a credit card mate, it is 2024 (soon to be 2025).

So your arguments are: 1. Visa/MC should be allowed to overcharge and we should all accept it because Visa/MC said so in their contracts. 2. You like using credit cards, and things that you personally like should be free in 2024, and other people should pay extra to subsidize your personal preferences. I'm not convinced. I don't think your personal preferences will be enough to reverse the trend of businesses chargin…

1. yes

2. never said that. usage of credit cards should 100% NOT be free. the businesses should however offer it and pay whatever that costs

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#108

Post by dismalaf »

acdha wrote: post #98
dismalaf wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people do think about pricing No offence but you're kind of proving my point. I said nothing about a difference in pricing because there isn't unless you actually tip $0 (which statistically very few people do). $24 (restaurant includes tip in price in order to pay servers a fair wage) is the same as $20 + 20% tip. Most of the rest of your comment is what I said with different wording. > high-income service wo…

If your argument wasn’t that a no-tip restaurant would seem higher priced, what was the purpose of your second paragraph? > There's very few high-service income workers. Yes, we’re in agreement? I was just referring to how the opposition here would trot out quotes from some bartender who makes $75/hour and not mention that they were the upper fraction of a percent and the median was considerably lower.

> If your argument wasn’t that a no-tip restaurant would seem higher priced

Of course it seems higher priced. That's the point. Perception. Seeming higher priced != higher priced if there's the expectation of tipping and you follow it, but the average consumer isn't very savvy so it ends up scaring them away. Which is why restaurants that try to include service in their pricing end up reverting or failing.

Also the only opposition is really from consumers (which then spills over to owners who get to hear all the complaints). Europeans get along fine with not tipping.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#109

Post by Gud »

the_snooze wrote: post #104
xscott wrote: post #6

The other one I'm seeing lately is a semi-stealth "service charge" on the bill. Something like 18% to 20% added to the bill without really standing out. This used to be something they'd do for "larger parties", but now I'm seeing it even when I'm eating solo. This makes for an uncomfortable situation where I now have to ask the waiter or bartender if they receive this as a tip. Then I need to decide if I want to tip…

>This makes for an uncomfortable situation where I now have to ask the waiter or bartender if they receive this as a tip. I don't even ask. If it looks like a tip and is computed like a tip, it is one. How the owners and workers hash out their payment structure is none of my business as a customer.

So why tip at all? Seems extremely arcane to me

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#110

Post by the_snooze »

jghn wrote: post #25
xscott wrote: post #6

The other one I'm seeing lately is a semi-stealth "service charge" on the bill. Something like 18% to 20% added to the bill without really standing out. This used to be something they'd do for "larger parties", but now I'm seeing it even when I'm eating solo. This makes for an uncomfortable situation where I now have to ask the waiter or bartender if they receive this as a tip. Then I need to decide if I want to tip…

When this started showing up near me the places that did it trained their staff to tell you up front that it was on there. They'd make a comment that you can add extra if you wish, but no obligation to do so. Over time I've found more and more they just don't mention it at all. More than once I got home and realized I tipped on top of the total + service charge: "Why was that about $100 more than I thought it'd be?",…

What I don't get is why restaurants don't just raise their prices. It's quite disrespectful to customers to advertise one price and charge them for another at the last second. It's Ticketmaster scumbaggery. Do we really want more of that?
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