I've been seeing more and more places also include the taxes and other fees in the total used to calculate the suggested tip. That seems pretty slimy to me.
Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return
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Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you charge 3% just to credit card users, they are now subsidizing the cash customers. I am guessing you are assuming the cost of cash handling to be zero.
well they must take cash anyway, so cost of handling cash isn't that significant compared to fixed+variable cost of credit card.
There is no federal law requiring a business to accept currency. You may be in a local jurisdiction with such a law.
Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
>This used to be something they'd do for "larger parties" I always thought that economy of scale makes it cheaper to process big orders in batch, but apparently I'm wrong
autograts for large parties are done because large parties tend to be poor tippers vs normal sized parties for various reasons.
I just think that the entire tipping thing is ridiculous. Imagine going to a supermarket and tipping the cashier. Or going to court and tipping the judge.
Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Six months ago I was at a burrito place and saw as I was paying that there was a new 3% fee for paying with a credit card. I have not gone back there since. Asking $11 for a burrito was already iffy and by then I'd started to curtail fast food purchases. I can't even imagine paying an 18-20% fee that isn't meant to be the entirety of the tip.
The Visa terms of service forbid charging extra for payments using a Visa. Other credit cards have similar terms I think.
Yeah I thought there was some kind of rule like that which is why I was so surprised, I'd never seen it in food service before.
Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
A 3% fee for a card makes perfect sense to me. That's not far off from what the merchant is losing for credit card customers, so their options are: 1. Charge the same for credit cards as cash, and make cash paying customers effectively pay more, thus applying a regressive tax to the poor (who are less likely to have credit cards) 2. Charge more for the credit card paying customers, and they can avoid this extra payme…
3% is the cost of doing business. you wanna charge customers for electricity too? what’s that - like 1% more? uniform / apron cleaning - 0.12%? anything else? :)
Electricity and so on are already included independently of the payment method.
Yes, the store should be charging enough to its customers that it can afford electricity, and if it can't afford electricity, it should increase its prices. It's not worth trying to account electricity use per-customer though, obviously, and it typically won't really vary by customer much anyway.
Credit card fees on the other hand do vary by customer, and can trivially be attributed to a single transaction accurately.
Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return
#76The worst service that I ever received was in France, where tips were mandatory and could not be varied. I've never been so offended at being asked to tip as when it was done by the smug jerk who had just arranged to make sure that I didn't enjoy my meal, and who knew that they would get their full cut of my unhappy experience. I have no problem tipping in the moment. And sometimes for very different amounts than exp…
You probably fell in some tourist trap or something. I hope you didn't tip.
Tips are absolutely not mandatory in France. You pay for what you order at the price you see on the menu and nothing more. Small tips are appreciated but not expected. I am French, I have eaten in many restaurants of all kinds and I have never been asked to tip and I tip only occasionally. As for surcharges, they sometimes happen, for example if the restaurant is part of a club and you are not a member, but never at regular restaurants, it may even be illegal.
I am sorry for your experience, they probably noticed that you weren't a native and attempted to trick you. Was it in Paris? It seems like such unacceptable behavior is more common in Paris.
Note: I interpreted "mandatory tip" as having to pay a surcharge. Of course, part of the bill goes into paying the waiting staff, but it shouldn't appear on the bill, that part is between the employees and their boss.
Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return
#77Tipping is a tough problem: if you pay customer facing employees more, you'll need to raise prices. If your competitors still have a tipping expectation, their menu prices will be lower. And let's be real, most customers aren't savvy enough to think about that ahead of time, which is why most restaurants that have attempting no-tipping systems in North America have failed (or reverted back to accepting tips). There's…
Most people do think about pricing - not to the penny, sure, but you have to be really rich not to have an idea about roughly where going out will fit in your budget. There are two reasons why tipping is popular: restaurant owners think it motivates employees to flatter/put up with customers and/or allows them to skim some extra income, and there’s a certain type of diner who loves the power imbalance (e.g. every guy…
> Most people do think about pricing
No offence but you're kind of proving my point. I said nothing about a difference in pricing because there isn't unless you actually tip $0 (which statistically very few people do). $24 (restaurant includes tip in price in order to pay servers a fair wage) is the same as $20 + 20% tip.
Most of the rest of your comment is what I said with different wording.
> high-income service workers
There's very few high-service income workers. I served tables through university, even if you make $400 in one night there's not enough of those nights for you to be "high income". If you're a stellar server working full time you can maybe equal what an average accountant makes in a year (which is pretty mediocre), but with more stress.
Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return
#78They’re finding new and creative ways to add extra costs to your meal in addition to asking / demanding / shaming you to tip. I’ve solved this problem by not going out to any restaurants and cooking at home. And when I do eat out it’s usually at take out places.
It has gotten so out of hand that I think a USP for a new or existing restaurant would be to advertise as a no tipping establishment. Pay your employees a fair wage and adjust your meal prices accordingly. Who knows? It just might catch on.
Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return
#79Tip awkwardness has played a surprisingly big role in me eating healthier. No I don't want to tip you for handing me a prepackaged muffin. But you're paid like shit with an eye on making up the difference in tips. So I guess the choice is to just not shop there. Which takes out almost all places I'd get a snack at during the day.
Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
autograts for large parties are done because large parties tend to be poor tippers vs normal sized parties for various reasons.
I just think that the entire tipping thing is ridiculous. Imagine going to a supermarket and tipping the cashier. Or going to court and tipping the judge.
I got an oil change a few months ago and the system prompted me to tip. Needless to say I won’t go there again.
And to name and shame them for my Canadian compatriots, it was the Great Canadian Oil Change chain.