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Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

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Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#101

Post by aneutron »

A lot of folks in the comments are acting like this was one of what they refer to as "cowboys".

Yet the guy went through each and every hoop to cooperate and coordinate properly with the ATC (which should dispell all the "100 planes in the air" worries) and the local IC (that set up a landing zone for the guy and gave him the frequencies to coordinate).

I understand that there may be some vigilantes that would ignore the rules and procedures but this guy with his previous expertise in fire and rescure went through all the stages to help.

The local fire chief was either on a power trip, or had a knee-jerk reaction to out of org help (which IMO disqualifies him from being an effective IC capable of using the available resources to prioritize human life). It is very clear that the guy was absolutely ready to cooperate according to the rules that the chief would set, but ordering him to not go back for his son is ABSOLUTELY a power trip.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#102

Post by _djo_ »

fleabagmange wrote: post #90
_djo_ wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He should've approached the South Carolina Emergency Management Division, perhaps: https://www.scemd.org/recover/volunteer-and-donate/ Or contacted one of the organisations listed here: https://www.fema.gov/disaster/4829

He was an S.C. Pilot flying into NC, and for what it’s worth the area he was flying supplies into was, to put it in desktop GUI terms CTRL-A and CTRL-SHIFT-DELETE All the people clamoring to defend the lame fire chief against the defend just don’t get it. This a world-class disaster area and if someone is willing to risk their own safety to get supplies to people in imminent threat of perishing themselves… that’s a g…

Then he should've approached the equivalent organisations in North Carolina, such as https://www.nc.gov/working/volunteer-opportunities/volunteer..., as linked from https://governor.nc.gov/news/press-releases/2024/10/01/rescu....

Asking volunteers to not just rush in and do things themselves without coordinating via the proper organisations set up for that purpose is standard for every disaster. For instance: https://matadornetwork.com/change/why-you-shouldnt-run-out-t...

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#103

Post by _djo_ »

fleabagmange wrote: post #100
traceroute66 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a reminder this occurred the day after the storm. I don't care if its the day of the storm, the day after or 50 years after. The rules and laws of aviation do not cease to operate just because there has been a major storm. In fact quite the opposite, they deserve to be far more rigorously adhered to and enforced because of the greater risk.

[flagged]

Please keep your comments within the HN Guidelines. There's no need for you to attack the person replying to you. [0]

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#104

Post by KingOfCoders »

_djo_ wrote: post #11

While this sort of thing sounds excessive and unfair at first glance, and the article is written with a clear slant, there's usually a good reason for it. Disaster response and rescue air missions are enormously complex with a lot of moving parts, and allowing anyone with an aircraft to get involved can actually make the entire response less effective. It's extremely common for disaster response and search & rescue t…

Love how the article always says "out-of-state chief"

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#105

Post by _djo_ »

trhway wrote: post #68
mulmen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fire chief, not police officer.

does either have any authority over airspace? There seems to be encroachment of local and state powers on the airspace, like for example states passing the laws de-facto prohibiting any meaningful flying of drones. Drones in emergencies like this could have been very useful. Of course, one could immediately say that adding drones, especially if a large number of them, would complicate things - yet it is the obvious c…

Random individuals flying their drones are a hazard to rescue helicopters and other aircraft.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#106

Post by kkfx »

Well... I do not know much the US culture but... To my EU taste, if an officer in an emergency tell me something illogical without justification he/she might be sued for attempted omission of assistance, threats, misconduct during a crisis. So he/she better back of or got trouble instead. I se NO POINT in being assertive and even no point in publishing an article, a simple formal complaint with all the relevant charges without saying another word to him.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#107

Post by trhway »

_djo_ wrote: post #105
trhway wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

does either have any authority over airspace? There seems to be encroachment of local and state powers on the airspace, like for example states passing the laws de-facto prohibiting any meaningful flying of drones. Drones in emergencies like this could have been very useful. Of course, one could immediately say that adding drones, especially if a large number of them, would complicate things - yet it is the obvious c…

Random individuals flying their drones are a hazard to rescue helicopters and other aircraft.

that is because no drone-incorporating airspace control system exists right now. The question is why such a system is not even in planning stages.

>Random individuals flying their drones are a hazard to rescue helicopters and other aircraft.

Is it so really? In Ukraine war a lot of de-facto random individuals from both sides are flying a lot of drones without pretty much any coordination and control system and in combat conditions, much tougher than civilian emergency, and mostly in FPV mode without direct LOS, frequently at night, yet no drone-helicopter/aircraft collisions have so far been reported (and everybody watching the aircraft and helicopter losses very closely)

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#108

Post by voidUpdate »

oasisaimlessly wrote: post #87
voidUpdate wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would your reaction be if someone showed up to your place of work and just started trying to do things how they thought they should be done, ignoring the proper channels and now knowing any of the procedures?

Bad analogy. If someone considers a disaster zone to be their personal fiefdom, they have a screw loose.

Is enforcing established procedures making it their "personal fiefdom"? Because this is how most jobs work in my experience

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#109

Post by _djo_ »

aneutron wrote: post #101

A lot of folks in the comments are acting like this was one of what they refer to as "cowboys". Yet the guy went through each and every hoop to cooperate and coordinate properly with the ATC (which should dispell all the "100 planes in the air" worries) and the local IC (that set up a landing zone for the guy and gave him the frequencies to coordinate). I understand that there may be some vigilantes that would ignore…

The only ATC the article says he spoke to was the Tower at Charlotte-Douglas International, to get permission to fly over the airport. They only manage the area immediately around the airport, and it's not the ATC that's coordinating the disaster response and managing the aircraft over the disaster area.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#110

Post by _djo_ »

kstenerud wrote: post #70
_djo_ wrote: post #11

While this sort of thing sounds excessive and unfair at first glance, and the article is written with a clear slant, there's usually a good reason for it. Disaster response and rescue air missions are enormously complex with a lot of moving parts, and allowing anyone with an aircraft to get involved can actually make the entire response less effective. It's extremely common for disaster response and search & rescue t…

“He originally asked me who I was. I gave him the same information, who I was with, my background experience, law enforcement, and firefighting. And his response was, if you have that kind of experience, you should know that you should be coordinating with us. And I said, I’ve been coordinating with everybody as I’ve been here just the day before, speaking with local law enforcement, other rescue personnel,” Seidhom…

Which is why he should've reached out to the Carolina Emergency Response Team or a related organisation first, rather than the possibly-overwhelmed local first responders who have no role in coordinating the air response.
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