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A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

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Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#101

I'd love if all psychoactive compounds could be removed from coffee beans. The stress response and inability to sleep I get from decaf beans is pretty much comparable to that from normal beans (and distinctly different from pure caffeine or green tea)

It's mostly genetics. Some folks should never have any amount of caffeine, while others it hardly affects. I have the hardly affects gene.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#102
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I quit caffeine a decade ago and am an evangelist for doing so; garbage drug. I'm very sensitive to it, and it absolutely wrecks my sleep. But I drink like five cups of black decaf every morning, which probably works out to 10-20% of the caffeine in a normal cup, and am pretty much fine. There's enough caffeine in decaf that I'd be afraid to drink it after 2PM.

I had to greatly reduce my caffeine intake at one point, and I've kept it down since. I'm inclined to agree that it's a garbage drug, but in small amounts and strictly in the morning work -like you do- it seems to work for me. Rather than drink 5 cups of decaf I drink one cup of decaf made with 6 parts decaf beans to 1 part caf. Then maybe later in the day I might eat three tiny pieces of 100% chocolate mass, but lik…

I’m a big advocate for replacing coffee with cacao. I drink it in the morning instead of coffee. Made from raw cacao paste and hot water, I use an immersion blender to mix it well and then add half and half for flavor. Way more nutrients than coffee and the theobromine is much gentler than caffeine and lasts all day.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#103
post #9
post #4

The decaf process seems expensive so you might expect the end result to cost more, but it never does. Which means either the producers are making less profit on decaf, or they are using lower quality beans. If the latter is true, which seems more likely, that might explain why decaf sometimes tastes less good, separately from the effect of the process itself on taste.

The German inventor of a decaf process sold the extracted coffein separately in pills, which might have given him a second income: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Roselius

I guess nowadays most of the extracted caffeine ends up in energy drinks like Red Bull.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#104
post #4

The decaf process seems expensive so you might expect the end result to cost more, but it never does. Which means either the producers are making less profit on decaf, or they are using lower quality beans. If the latter is true, which seems more likely, that might explain why decaf sometimes tastes less good, separately from the effect of the process itself on taste.

Decaf is bad business becuase processed beans are loosing taste more rapidly. You should drink it freshly roasted, buy more often but smaller packs and if this is not the case decaf simply tastes less good.

So as a producer you have more expensive process and less consumer satisfaction...

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#105

I'd love if all psychoactive compounds could be removed from coffee beans. The stress response and inability to sleep I get from decaf beans is pretty much comparable to that from normal beans (and distinctly different from pure caffeine or green tea)

I had a similar problem. Coffee, decaf, even dark chocolate would be very stimulating and would mess with my sleep, even a single cup in the morning. I tried quite a few things to solve this and ended up discovering that supplementing with molybdenum solved it. Molybdenum is an essential element important in the metabolization of some compounds, including caffeine. It's cheap and may be worth trying. Also, I found th…

I'll add some more info to my post.

Caffeine is a purine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine).

A Google Scholar search for "molybdenum purine" will come up with many studies discussing how molybdenum is involved in purine catabolism. For example, the following article states "[molybdenum] is considered essential because it is part of a complex called molybdenum cofactor that is required for the three mammalian enzymes xanthine oxidase (XO), aldehyde oxidase (AO), and sulfite oxidase (SO). XO participates in the metabolism of purines". (https://aspenjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.117...).

When I was younger I was able to drink multiple pots of coffee in a day and even drink coffee right before going to sleep without any obvious issues. So when I couldn't even drink a single cup of coffee in the morning on a regular basis without problems I had reason to believe there was something wrong with me and it wasn't simply a genetic quirk.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#106
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price difference between cheap supermarket coffee and high-end local roaster is large enough (up to 10x) that the potential additional cost for decaffeination doesn't seem that big of a deal if you're looking for coffee at the higher end of the quality scale.

Yeah, that's a much better and more concise way of saying what I did.

You both described the same thing, but fabian2k better.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#108
post #74

TIL about one of the solvents involved, ethyl acetate, and the fact that it is not good for you. How do I know that my local coffee shop's machine is working correctly and provides only safe levels of this solvent?

how did you get that from the article? "One of the common solvents, ethyl acetate, comes naturally in many foods and beverages. It’s considered a safe chemical for decaffeination by the Food and Drug Administration." speaking from a chemist's perspective, ethyl acetate is basically non-toxic. it decomposes into ethanol and acetic acid (vinegar). dcm (methylene chloride) is toxic, but should be completely removed befo…

[deleted]

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to greatly reduce my caffeine intake at one point, and I've kept it down since. I'm inclined to agree that it's a garbage drug, but in small amounts and strictly in the morning work -like you do- it seems to work for me. Rather than drink 5 cups of decaf I drink one cup of decaf made with 6 parts decaf beans to 1 part caf. Then maybe later in the day I might eat three tiny pieces of 100% chocolate mass, but lik…

I’m a big advocate for replacing coffee with cacao. I drink it in the morning instead of coffee. Made from raw cacao paste and hot water, I use an immersion blender to mix it well and then add half and half for flavor. Way more nutrients than coffee and the theobromine is much gentler than caffeine and lasts all day.

Huh! Gonna have to try that!

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#110

I wonder why we don't use genetic modifications to get caffeine free coffee?

Not sure of the current progress with breeding and cultivation, but there is a naturally occuring caffeine-free coffee plant. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffea_charrieriana
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