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Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

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Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#101

Post by throwway120385 »

michaelt wrote: post #33
mv4 wrote: post #13

Since someone mentioned 'declouding' here, my startup (well, scaleup now) makes a few privacy-first, autonomous (no cloud) video security products - on-prem video security hub, relays for automation, cameras. I was also getting sick of cloud-based 'smart' cameras that ping random servers in China, so we made our own 'dumb' cameras that are fast (Uniview hardware with our firmware inside). If anyone here is interested…

> Always interested in product feedback. While I share your concerns about the security implications of sending video to the cloud, the way I see it if someone's burgling my house they're probably going to steal whatever I'm using for on-prem video storage while they're at it. And while I could secure it in an impenetrable or hidden box - if I have such a box I can put all my valuables in the box, and feel peace of m…

Put it in a NEMA box somewhere out of sight. People will assume it's alarm equipment if you do that and won't mess with it.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#102

Post by scottlamb »

mv4 wrote: post #56
scottlamb wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been looking for a camera to recommend for use with my open-source NVR. [1] This sounds promising, but I have a few questions. * What's the status of Uniview? Are their cameras allowed in the US under the 2019 NDAA? still receiving FCC approvals since the Secure Equipment Act of 2021? Does Uniview participate in the Uyghur genocide? * Do you have any models with large sensors, e.g. 1/1.8" or wider? I prefer good…

... note that good nigh performance also requires more light gathering capacity (better glass), not just a bigger sensor. Can't multiply photons.

Good point. I don't know how to verify that from just the spec sheet though, where as if the sensor is tiny I know not to get my hopes too high.

Is there a question one can ask a camera vendor to reveal glass quality, or when the sensor looks promising is the next step to take the plunge and buy one to try?

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#104

Post by godelski »

janekm wrote: post #96
cameldrv wrote: post #23

These cameras are extremely suspicious -- just follow the money. I bought some cheap Chinese cameras in 2020 that by default send the video stream to a Chinese server, which you can watch with an app on your phone. The cameras were about $40 on Amazon, so my guess is the manufacturer was getting paid maybe $15-20 for them. Bandwidth to and from China is not that cheap, and you could be running this stream 24x7. The s…

Something worth keeping in mind is that Chinese factories that makes things like IP cameras don't typically have their own (significant) R&D departments and instead work from examples provided by the makers of the chipsets. Sometimes there will be another company involved that provide an "IoT ecosystem" (Tuya is a major player here: https://www.tuya.com/solution/hardware/ip-camera ). So it's not necessarily surprisin…

Since the topic of the article is about reverse engineering, I think it is extremely important to remember this. R&D time is very expensive. As people predominantly in CS, we should be aware of this, as this is typically how we are classified. And I think everyone innately knows how much more difficult it is to create something from scratch, the help you get just by having a reference, and how much easier it is to copy (or modify) when you have the thing in your hands (or source).

And it is worth noting that prices are vastly different in China. Labor is much cheaper and licenses aren't respected. The cost of living is cheaper to a smaller profit margin goes a much longer way. As tfa mentions, there are identical cameras sold by different manufacturers. It is unclear if this is typical reskinning or designs being taken. Both significantly reduce the cost of things. I have no idea how much hosting costs in China.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#105

Post by cesarb »

lesuorac wrote: post #81
mv4 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This will absolutely work if you know what you're doing. Similar to what I proposed with the NVR+PoE. Also, this feels like my Dropbox moment (the infamous comment below) :) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 I am trying to remove this complexity.

> Also, this feels like my Dropbox moment (the infamous comment below) :) Isn't that just the whole cloud (and also a gazillion other services)? I think the argument of "Why pay DropBox when you can just FTP" also applies to why pay AWS when I can manage my own servers? And then to further extend, why pay the supermarket when I can just grow vegetables at home?

> And then to further extend, why pay the supermarket when I can just grow vegetables at home?

Because I can't?

I live in a building on a dense urban area. There's not enough space in my home to grow the necessary amount of vegetables.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#106

Post by entropyie »

dspillett wrote: post #88
hattmall wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of them the stream is just a relay to create a connection between you and the camera via Upnp or something similar. They aren't actually footing a bill for all the bandwidth.

That may be the case for live viewing, but those that record longer term generally do it to a server out there. I have some from a company called Yi that I now refuse to use: they used to support local recording to SD card instead but that broke and the support answer seems to be “use the remote recording”, the remote recording only supports a short time window unless you pay a subscription, and they started flooding…

The vast majority support local streaming via rtsp...

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#108

Post by hagbard_c »

I did a similar thing with the Xiongmai camera's I bought to keep an eye on a newly built barn/stable/clinic here on the farm and used the information to create a CLI tool to control the camera's:

https://github.com/Yetangitu/cam

I never allowed these camera's or the included DVR (which I do not use since I use Zoneminder [1]) access to the internet, they are confined on their own subnet which does not allow egress other than to my own networks nor ingress from other sources. That is true for any and all network-connected special-purpose hardware, e.g. the Fronius inverter - made in Austria - does not get to access the internet either. I pay for the hardware and I provide my own service infrastructure, I see no need to pay again with my data.

[1] https://zoneminder.com/

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#109

Post by janekm »

godelski wrote: post #104
janekm wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something worth keeping in mind is that Chinese factories that makes things like IP cameras don't typically have their own (significant) R&D departments and instead work from examples provided by the makers of the chipsets. Sometimes there will be another company involved that provide an "IoT ecosystem" (Tuya is a major player here: https://www.tuya.com/solution/hardware/ip-camera ). So it's not necessarily surprisin…

Since the topic of the article is about reverse engineering, I think it is extremely important to remember this. R&D time is very expensive. As people predominantly in CS, we should be aware of this, as this is typically how we are classified. And I think everyone innately knows how much more difficult it is to create something from scratch, the help you get just by having a reference, and how much easier it is to co…

Regarding hosting, it's a big pain point for companies building these systems out of China as the "great firewall" makes it really hard to have reliable connectivity between the Chinese Internet (and datacenters) and outside. The ap-east-1 zone of AWS, based in Hong Kong, is very popular in that context as it tends to be accessible from both sides (so cost is fairly typical of AWS costs in that case). Alternatively Alibaba also have cloud datacenters in Hong Kong with similar properties.
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