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Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

#101

Post by badpun »

danybittel wrote: post #35
edent wrote: post #19

Citroën Ami is about as low tech as you can get. If you want something more car-shaped, the Renault Zoe has very few tech feature. Similarly, Kia Soul has a reversing camera… and that's about it! No radar, lane assist, carplay or anything like that. Cstomers only want 3 things. A comfortable ride, a safe journey, and $thing. The problem is, everyone's one more thing is different. I want DAB radio, you want cruise con…

Wouldn't it be fun if electric cars were the same way as PC's. Plug and play the parts you want, switch motor / battery.. choose a new chassis as you wish. And LED lights of course.

And then get bluescreens while driving. Modularity will always come with some degree of flakiness, which is acceptable in PCs, but not in cars.

Re: Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

#102

Post by rapjr9 »

Simulacra wrote: post #29

The Arcimoto seems like what you're looking for.

Looks like Arcimoto is gone, Wikipedia says their web site disappeared in March 2024 and they defaulted on several obligations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcimoto

Maybe it will live on if someone buys the IP.

Re: Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

#103

Post by david-gpu »

bluGill wrote: post #61
twoquestions wrote: post #7

I wonder the same, there's a bunch of budget electric bikes out there, I'd love something small that I can get around in the winter with!

> I'd love something small that I can get around in the winter with! Try a coat. If you look around you discover that cycling cities tend to be places with harsh winters. While cycling dies off in winter, there are some die-hards go year round and they will report what you need if you ask them.

Yeah, I live in Toronto and cycle year round. Simply wear winter clothes, like you would do if you went out for a walk.

Re: Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

#104

Post by JohnFen »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #75
JohnFen wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I understand that it's a cost-savings measure by the automakers, but that's not relevant to me as a car owner. If the added expense is so onerous to the automaker, then they can raise the price of the car to make up for it. I'd buy that, where I won't buy a car that has inferior controls. Why would I, when there is still a plethora of older cars available that better meet my needs?

Not many would be willing to pay $1000 more for more buttons.

Maybe, maybe not. If you posed it to customers in that way, many would object. If you didn't, then a $1000 price increase wouldn't really be noticed.

But it doesn't matter how many are willing. All I'm saying is that this is a thing that matters a great deal to me. It's pretty close to a dealbreaker. Even if I'm the only one that feels that way, it's still how I feel.

The auto industry appears to not want to make cars that I'd actually want to buy. Fair enough.

But I do find it interesting that one of the things that I was always taught was a strength of our economic system is that it will produce a wide enough variety of goods that pretty much everyone will find a version of a product that they'd actually want. That it appears that it can't looks like a kind of failure to me.

Re: Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

#105

Post by m463 »

I hope someday there will be a backlash.

- dumb TVs, or open-source TVs.

- dumb phones, or completely open-source smart phones.

- dumb EVs, or completely open-source EVs.

I think the profit for open source stuff is not guaranteed, so funding a company is hard. People who fund companies want lock-in, patents, product monopoly. They don't want something that can be copied and productized by another company that had no R&D costs and then undercut in price.

that said, it is definitely something society wants.

Re: Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

#106

Post by DidYaWipe »

edent wrote: post #19

Citroën Ami is about as low tech as you can get. If you want something more car-shaped, the Renault Zoe has very few tech feature. Similarly, Kia Soul has a reversing camera… and that's about it! No radar, lane assist, carplay or anything like that. Cstomers only want 3 things. A comfortable ride, a safe journey, and $thing. The problem is, everyone's one more thing is different. I want DAB radio, you want cruise con…

And yet, in the late '80s or early '90s, the future was supposed to be made-to-order cars that were delivered to your door. If anything, we've regressed from the level of customization that was available decades ago.

Re: Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

#107

Post by teleforce »

Toyota has been producing and selling ultra compact BEV car for examples COMS and C+pod for some times now [1][2].

However there are not that popular outside Japan, and inside Japan many are being used for food and home delivery.

Not only they're small and lightweight for urban commuting, the fact that for countries with frequent raining and hot climates they're much better proposition compared to the more accident prone motorcycles and EV bikes.

For normal and sub-compact EV car, BYD Seagull is a game changer and without country and state protections, they will sell by truck loads of them, and at less than USD10K selling price in China now it's a steal [4].

I think Seagull is the main reason US, Europe and many countries around the world suddenly have the new tariffs for EV cars. Most of the tariffs were announced just several months Seagull was announced to the world, and they're not a coincident. When EV cars are dirt cheap to buy, operate and maintain you can say good bye to the local car manufacturers (even the EV ones) if there's no protection. Apparently and obviously the much touted free trades policy only works when it's for you but not against you, c'est la vie [5][6].

[1] Toyota C+pod:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_C%2Bpod

[2] Toyota COMS:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_COMS

[3] BYD Seagull:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Seagull

[4] Why a small China-made EV has global auto execs and politicians on edge:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/22/byd-seagull-ev-puts-global-a...

[5] How will new EU tariffs on Chinese electric vehicles work?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/12/how...

[6] Biden hits Chinese electric cars and solar cells with higher tariffs:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-69004520

Re: Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

#108

Post by brokenmachine »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #75
JohnFen wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I understand that it's a cost-savings measure by the automakers, but that's not relevant to me as a car owner. If the added expense is so onerous to the automaker, then they can raise the price of the car to make up for it. I'd buy that, where I won't buy a car that has inferior controls. Why would I, when there is still a plethora of older cars available that better meet my needs?

Not many would be willing to pay $1000 more for more buttons.

If there was a model with buttons that was $1000 more than a model using a touchscreen to turn the wipers on and adjust the AC, I would absolutely pay the $1000.

I don't think I'm alone in this.

Re: Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

#109

Post by Dylan16807 »

edent wrote: post #19

Citroën Ami is about as low tech as you can get. If you want something more car-shaped, the Renault Zoe has very few tech feature. Similarly, Kia Soul has a reversing camera… and that's about it! No radar, lane assist, carplay or anything like that. Cstomers only want 3 things. A comfortable ride, a safe journey, and $thing. The problem is, everyone's one more thing is different. I want DAB radio, you want cruise con…

> Cstomers only want 3 things. A comfortable ride, a safe journey, and $thing. The problem is, everyone's one more thing is different. I want DAB radio, you want cruise control, she wants lane assist, he wants automatic parking.

Every car has a radio. And DAB support has no real effect on cost and I don't think the radio chip is what OP has in mind for "low tech".

The rest of that has a very clear divide. Cruise control is low tech and negligible cost, especially on an electric vehicle. Lane assist and automatic parking are high tech and need pricey extra parts to implement.

And this logic doesn't explain why plenty of low tech non-electric cars exist.

Someone else already replied about how the examples you gave changed to add flashy high tech stuff.

Re: Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

#110

Post by radpanda »

mushufasa wrote: post #31

So the unit economics of electric cars are quite different from gas cars (ICE = internal combustion). Electric car companies don't make money on low cost cars -- and neither can ICE cars! Basic ICE cars are essentially sold at cost, sometimes as loss leaders, because the manufacturers make a long-tail of money supplying parts and maintenance for the cars over their lifetime; for 10-20 years they now have a (variable)…

> Basic ICE cars are essentially sold at cost, sometimes as loss leaders, because the manufacturers make a long-tail of money supplying parts and maintenance for the cars over their lifetime

Not just that but fuel economy regulations, (like CAFE in the USA) mandated average fleet fuel economy that must be met for automakers to avoid fines. GM had to sell a bunch of Cavaliers to be able to sell a bunch of (profitable) Silverados and Suburbans. With hybrids and EVs these days, regulations no longer favor the small car.

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