7 out of every 10 Fentanyl pills seized by DEA contain a lethal dose • Hacker News Board

Re: 7 out of every 10 Fentanyl pills seized by DEA contain a lethal dose

#101

Post by theGeatZhopa » Fri, Apr 05, 2024, 6:41 AM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #92

theGeatZhopa wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe what I read. Giving away fentanyl for free? You have a romantic view on drugs. In such, you either are really young (and still idealistic, which is good but lacking life's experiences) or you never drink more than a beer and don't really have contact to the addicted. The aim should be to get them off this, so they stop doing EVERYthing just for getting the next high. The aim is not to even supply more…

Where did I say the goal was to "supply more of these highs" ? You say "take it away" like there is a magic wand that hasn't been used, and just needs to be waved to make drugs disappear from existence. But rather this idea is actually just the widespread approach of prohibition, which has been tried for the past five decades, with its main result of causing great personal and societal harm. Currently, we already hav…

I can understand you, but I'm thinking it doesn't have anything to do with prohibition. If it were so, then the addicted to opiates would be distributed evenly through All countries. It's not the case with, I'm from Germany, in Germany. We have drug addicts too, but it's not a problem here. You know why?

Because opiates are forbidden and you have to fear your freedom if you handle them with lack.

For example it's not possible to get them prescribed easily. If you got them prescribed, it's an act of getting it. We have the BTM law where everything is written down.

Instead, America's physicians prescribed that to easily in former times and still doing it (pain killers on oxy basis?). The drugs and addiction epidemic started much earlier. And now it's already full swinging.

It's not the problem of prohibition, it's the problem of way too easy to get access and hands onto. And you call it prohibition.. I name it regulation. There is a difference between these both two words. So, America should regulate it much more. Each world's country should regulate this the much the people can't by compounds or ready for usage stuff. This is the case for addictive drugs, which in my eyes includes alcohol too.

But, may be I'm wrong in here and I don't see the true "why" But I'm thinking, I'm not wrong in here though.

https://nida.nih.gov/publications/drugfacts/prescription-opi...

So what you want basically is to open the market, to talk to people not to do it (so they educated enough to decide on what they want) and then hope that the abuse of drugs won't get more and even sink? And that with highly effective and addictive stuff? NO, H3LL!

You seem to have absolutely no experience with drugs. Absolutely No Experience with opiates. I have, I one got it in the hospital and I remember it as a wonderful time. I would like to repeat that experience, but I know, if I do , I might get into big trouble and am strong enough not to touch it. But if one would give me 1 pill. I would take it because it was high pleasure experience. There my drug addiction career would have started.

You talk about quality controls and standards. I'm talking about ban it completely, make everything unreachable for everyone. Make it highly regulated. That's the only way not to have people easy try it and get hooked on the feeling, like me. You can think what ever you want, but I'm happy that we're living on a democracy and laws are for each and every ;) and there are still enough people who so No, like me :) I do it out of experiences.

Re: 7 out of every 10 Fentanyl pills seized by DEA contain a lethal dose

#102

Post by theGeatZhopa » Fri, Apr 05, 2024, 6:48 AM UTC

worik wrote: post #96

theGeatZhopa wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But not with opium. Please not . Everything "natural" that can make you addicted to, is the same as synthetically made stuff that makes you addicted to. The problem is here not in the market or lacking regulations. The problem is that you have personality changing, highly addictive, dangerous stuff. Mary Jane, alcohol and tacos is enough of regulated. Advocating here doesn't take into account that the advocatee kills…

> Advocating here doesn't take into account that the advocatee kills. It's not harmless. Opium is not a great killer

It is not a fast killer, but it kills you. Like tobacco, Alcohol, and the regulated Heroin and all the other drugs too.

The dangerousness comes from the speed of getting addicted to and the damage it causes: health, sociological and financial.

You arguing like opium is like weed. Hell. No! Get your experiences.

Re: 7 out of every 10 Fentanyl pills seized by DEA contain a lethal dose

#103

Post by hehhehaha » Fri, Apr 05, 2024, 8:16 PM UTC

worik wrote: post #95

cameldrv wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that responsibility comes from reason, and drugs like Fentanyl are a direct attack on your faculties of reason. A lot of Enlightenment ideals fall down when faced with hyper addictive things IMO, and we just keep inventing new ones.

> and drugs like Fentanyl are a direct attack on your faculties of reason Alcohol is a much more serious attacker of reason

good, if we want to have healthcare, then limit alcohol consumption

Re: 7 out of every 10 Fentanyl pills seized by DEA contain a lethal dose

#104

Post by worik » Fri, Apr 05, 2024, 8:55 PM UTC

theGeatZhopa wrote: post #102

worik wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Advocating here doesn't take into account that the advocatee kills. It's not harmless. Opium is not a great killer

It is not a fast killer, but it kills you. Like tobacco, Alcohol, and the regulated Heroin and all the other drugs too. The dangerousness comes from the speed of getting addicted to and the damage it causes: health, sociological and financial. You arguing like opium is like weed. Hell. No! Get your experiences.

> but it kills you. Like tobacco, Alcohol, and the regulated Heroin and all the other drugs too.

That is untrue

Opiates have few long-term health detrimental effects, exciting addiction

(Amd, reportedly, constipation)

Re: 7 out of every 10 Fentanyl pills seized by DEA contain a lethal dose

#105

Post by worik » Fri, Apr 05, 2024, 8:57 PM UTC

robwwilliams wrote: post #100

worik wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> opiates taken over a relatively short time can and often do greatly impair CNS neurotransmitter systems That is untrue https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Stewart_Halsted is a counter example "Throughout his professional life, he was addicted to cocaine and later also to morphine...."

You link for support for your opinion thar all drugs are benign to a Wiki entry if a scientist who died in 1922—-before there was a field of neuroscience? My rejoinder could be 10,000 peer-reviewed papers in this millennium.

> You link for support for your opinion thar all drugs are benign to a Wiki entry if a scientist who died in 1922

Who pioneered keyhole surgery

> rejoinder could be 10,000 peer-reviewed papers in this millennium.

Nonsense.

Re: 7 out of every 10 Fentanyl pills seized by DEA contain a lethal dose

#106

Post by worik » Fri, Apr 05, 2024, 9:01 PM UTC

hehhehaha wrote: post #103

worik wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and drugs like Fentanyl are a direct attack on your faculties of reason Alcohol is a much more serious attacker of reason

good, if we want to have healthcare, then limit alcohol consumption

> then limit alcohol consumption

Prohibit it?

Yeah, nah!

Provide safe alternatives

MDMA for example

A large group of people partying on MDMA is a wonderful thing.

Close to True Bliss

I highly recommend it

Re: 7 out of every 10 Fentanyl pills seized by DEA contain a lethal dose

#107

Post by theGeatZhopa » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 3:23 PM UTC

worik wrote: post #104

theGeatZhopa wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a fast killer, but it kills you. Like tobacco, Alcohol, and the regulated Heroin and all the other drugs too. The dangerousness comes from the speed of getting addicted to and the damage it causes: health, sociological and financial. You arguing like opium is like weed. Hell. No! Get your experiences.

> but it kills you. Like tobacco, Alcohol, and the regulated Heroin and all the other drugs too. That is untrue Opiates have few long-term health detrimental effects, exciting addiction (Amd, reportedly, constipation)

It's a f*ing addictive making drug. You don't have experience with that it seems and thinking it's romantic or something? The addicts suffer a lot, they can't work high but can't be not be high. And that kills. First it kills your social life. Then it kills you. If it's not the cancer it might cause, then it's not necessary the overdoses of other drugs which you take instead. All addictive making stuff should be banned.

https://monographs.iarc.who.int/news-events/volume-126-opium...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9159125/

Just YouTube a little bit around and take a look at your "that's not true". Look how addicts living a wonderful life. Picture you living sich a wonderful life :)

Drugs are bad. Whatever makes you addicted, should be banned and highly regulated. Not the opposite.

When you take weed as example - that's not a problem because it doesn't make your body addicted to (but your brain, which is really not that big problem). I'm consuming that since 25y (in average daily) and comparable lot with 5-10J per day. If I'm about to be empty, I start to get nervous because I don't want not to smoke. But if I decide to stop it, I have 2 weeks where I'm really not a good guy. But that's all. It's more the nicotine. If I can't smoke, I search for a solution so I can.

If you smoke opium, try to do that:) if you take fentanyl, try to do it. So you basically have no experience and talking about "it should be allowed because it's just obstipation and a little addiction" in my eyes.. to naive look. The same I see with the young people who are against prohibition by the state but for self decisions.. LOL. they're the first one getting hooked on it.

Re: 7 out of every 10 Fentanyl pills seized by DEA contain a lethal dose

#108

Post by worik » Sun, Apr 07, 2024, 2:39 AM UTC

theGeatZhopa wrote: post #107

worik wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it kills you. Like tobacco, Alcohol, and the regulated Heroin and all the other drugs too. That is untrue Opiates have few long-term health detrimental effects, exciting addiction (Amd, reportedly, constipation)

It's a f*ing addictive making drug. You don't have experience with that it seems and thinking it's romantic or something? The addicts suffer a lot, they can't work high but can't be not be high. And that kills. First it kills your social life. Then it kills you. If it's not the cancer it might cause, then it's not necessary the overdoses of other drugs which you take instead. All addictive making stuff should be bann…

> s a f*ing addictive making drug. You don't have experience with that it seems and thinking it's romantic or something? The addicts suffer a lot, they can't work high but can't be not be high.

Steady on, no need to swear

I have extensive experience of addiction

Opiate addicts cab easily be useful productive members of society

It is how herion addiction was treated in England until the 1970s when the Americans threatened them into stopping

People who are at rock bottom are often drug addicts to, but in most cases it is not the drugs that get them there, and it is the police, law, and stigma that keep them there

Re: 7 out of every 10 Fentanyl pills seized by DEA contain a lethal dose

#109

Post by worik » Sun, Apr 07, 2024, 2:39 AM UTC

huytersd wrote: post #23

worik wrote: post #6

Do you think legalising safer drugs, like Heroin, would be a sensible step? [Edit: I do] I advocate legalising Opium straight away. I think Heroin is a step further than required. How many people have to die from synthetic opiate overdose? The obvious public health measure is to legalise the much safer natural alternatives.

Legalizing opiates is silly. It only takes a handful of times to get hooked and people currently use alcohol for months on end to get through hard times. Anyone with even a slight propensity for substance abuse would be an addict within a year. Contrary to the popular narrative it’s not super simple to get opiates and honestly it’s not on most people’s radars to even seek it out.

> Legalizing opiates is silly. It only takes a handful of times to get hooked...

Wrong

Re: 7 out of every 10 Fentanyl pills seized by DEA contain a lethal dose

#110

Post by theGeatZhopa » Sun, Apr 07, 2024, 4:33 PM UTC

worik wrote: post #108

theGeatZhopa wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a f*ing addictive making drug. You don't have experience with that it seems and thinking it's romantic or something? The addicts suffer a lot, they can't work high but can't be not be high. And that kills. First it kills your social life. Then it kills you. If it's not the cancer it might cause, then it's not necessary the overdoses of other drugs which you take instead. All addictive making stuff should be bann…

> s a f*ing addictive making drug. You don't have experience with that it seems and thinking it's romantic or something? The addicts suffer a lot, they can't work high but can't be not be high. Steady on, no need to swear I have extensive experience of addiction Opiate addicts cab easily be useful productive members of society It is how herion addiction was treated in England until the 1970s when the Americans threat…

Ok I'm sorry. You're right, no need to swear. I'm with you in the means drug addicts can also be a driving force.. not necessary they are completely useless. And yes, it's stigmatizing and it's done by the laws.

But I think it's better not to let the addiction even start, what would inadvertently happen if the handling of such substances is not regulated (not necessary completely unregulated in the means letting it up to the people to decide whether they want to try it or not)

Because it's the beginning, and the possibilities are very high that people start to like it and can't handle such freedom.

The same discussion is right about in Germany. From the 1st of April, weed ist partially legalized. So we have had people who did consume before (like me) and who now start to try it and - in between this both groups - people who did not consume frequently, but start to consume at higher levels (not like me, daily, but more often then once, twice a month..).

In Portugal (fully) and Spain (some kind of fully legalized) weed has been legalized since a long enough time for them to get the counts. O don't have sources by hand, but they tell statistically, around 30 percent more consumption and around 30 percent more of psychological problems emerged since legalization.

I don't care the numbers, except there was a rise since deregulation. I believe it's more than 30 percent. With me personally nothing changed really. So I think this 30 percent are from people consuming irregularly (now regularly) and new starters. The old consumers won't change their behavior much, because it was already at high levels before. So I'm thinking, if stronger things are not regulated anymore, then we will have a lot of addicts .. and with a stuff, that makes you strong addicted to, it's not fun anymore.

So that's why I'm arguing against it.

I don't believe some education will stop people from doing it. Nowadays we have like a really strong education on this topic. Each one knows what drugs do - bit still people try it. And they switch to even harder drugs if they can't get theirs...

Just look at the alcoholics. Of they don't have booze, they drink others like perfume (in the end, it's just alc).. or they try crocodile (the Russian horror drug) for example.

So we don't know how the people will behave and I'm thinking mostly negative about that, as you already got it punched in the face by me. Sorry for that mate.