GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account • Hacker News Board

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#101

Post by philmcc » Tue, May 15, 2012, 10:37 PM UTC

I wasn't under the impression that advertising (for a company like GM) was supposed to "work" in any easily measurable way. Especially not $10million of a budget which, though undefined, is clearly large if they are trying to cut $2 billion from it.

I think that to measure the efficacy of a GM ad based on the same measurable activity that you'd measure an ad for (say) a T shirt company is probably a bit misinformed. No one is checking to see if anyone clicked on GM and subsequently bought a Cadillac.

A lot of the comments on the original article seem similarly misguided. ("I NEVER CLICK ON THE ADS I HARDLY EVER NOTICE THEM.") The McDonalds logo on the back fence of a baseball field isn't to convince you to walk over to it and do something. It's so that later when you drive by McDonalds you "decide" to stop.

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#102

Post by elorant » Tue, May 15, 2012, 10:40 PM UTC

I'm surprised as to why Facebook isn't looking in other sources of income instead of ads. Like e-commerce for example. Providing a platform for the gazillions of small to medium companies that already have an account would be IMHO a more wise decision. Or build an analytics platform and combine it with real time demographics and blow the competition away. I'm sure there are dozens of ideas as to what they could build and still we don't see anything innovating.

But then again perhaps their problem is intense scaling. With 800M users even the simplest idea becomes cumbersome in developing.

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#103

Post by waterlesscloud » Tue, May 15, 2012, 10:41 PM UTC

natrius wrote: post #83

mmaunder wrote: post #73

Facebook's root problem is intent. Users who are googling something and seeing AdWords ads are looking for something and often the thing they're looking for shows up as an ad so they - suprise! - click the ad and often become a conversion once on the site. With Facebook there is zero helpful intent. The only intent when you're on Facebook is to use Facebook. And if you do click an ad, you're less likely to become a c…

For brand advertisers like GM, intent is supposed to matter less. The lack of intent was always a known factor, but I personally expected big brands to be comfortable with Facebook's lower click through rates. The fact that they're not is a huge red flag.

My immediate reaction to this is that "Behemoth old company has not yet learned to optimize its Facebook messaging".

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#104

Post by pmorici » Tue, May 15, 2012, 10:42 PM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #88

mmaunder wrote: post #73

Facebook's root problem is intent. Users who are googling something and seeing AdWords ads are looking for something and often the thing they're looking for shows up as an ad so they - suprise! - click the ad and often become a conversion once on the site. With Facebook there is zero helpful intent. The only intent when you're on Facebook is to use Facebook. And if you do click an ad, you're less likely to become a c…

Intent is huge. I've never been one to click on Google Ads except in real rare instances. Only once I observed my mom using Google did I realize the full value of intent and google ads while searching. She wanted to watch an episode of The Good Wife that she had missed so she searched in the Safari omnibar for "watch The Good Wife" and the first div under the search bar is an ad to some site that was not CBS that had…

"That's the power of intent and Facebook doesn't have that."

Sure they do...

Status Update from malandrew's mom: "OMG I can't wait to watch the new episode of The Good Wife tonight!"

Facebook ads: "Click here to watch The latest Episode of the Good Wife"

Facebook could has something better than Google intent in that they should be able to predict what you intend to search for before you go looking for it.

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#105

Post by jrockway » Tue, May 15, 2012, 10:44 PM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #82

mmaunder wrote: post #73

Facebook's root problem is intent. Users who are googling something and seeing AdWords ads are looking for something and often the thing they're looking for shows up as an ad so they - suprise! - click the ad and often become a conversion once on the site. With Facebook there is zero helpful intent. The only intent when you're on Facebook is to use Facebook. And if you do click an ad, you're less likely to become a c…

When watching TV the intent is to watch TV, not purchase soap, a car, or a soft drink. It might be that Facebook's ads are simply the wrong type/style for the kind of interaction people use it for. It does seem like Facebook ads feel like Google search ads.

Or, TV ads don't actually work very well. Since we can't track conversions, we don't really know. Advertisers are paying for it, so why rain on the parade?

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#106

Post by tomkarlo » Tue, May 15, 2012, 10:45 PM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #88

mmaunder wrote: post #73

Facebook's root problem is intent. Users who are googling something and seeing AdWords ads are looking for something and often the thing they're looking for shows up as an ad so they - suprise! - click the ad and often become a conversion once on the site. With Facebook there is zero helpful intent. The only intent when you're on Facebook is to use Facebook. And if you do click an ad, you're less likely to become a c…

Intent is huge. I've never been one to click on Google Ads except in real rare instances. Only once I observed my mom using Google did I realize the full value of intent and google ads while searching. She wanted to watch an episode of The Good Wife that she had missed so she searched in the Safari omnibar for "watch The Good Wife" and the first div under the search bar is an ad to some site that was not CBS that had…

It seems to me like even if it was an ad, your mom's usage connected intent with desired result better than yours. Obviously confusion isn't great, but what she said she wanted to do was "watch the Good Wife", not "watch the Good Wife on CBS".

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#107

Post by vm » Tue, May 15, 2012, 10:47 PM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #88

mmaunder wrote: post #73

Facebook's root problem is intent. Users who are googling something and seeing AdWords ads are looking for something and often the thing they're looking for shows up as an ad so they - suprise! - click the ad and often become a conversion once on the site. With Facebook there is zero helpful intent. The only intent when you're on Facebook is to use Facebook. And if you do click an ad, you're less likely to become a c…

Intent is huge. I've never been one to click on Google Ads except in real rare instances. Only once I observed my mom using Google did I realize the full value of intent and google ads while searching. She wanted to watch an episode of The Good Wife that she had missed so she searched in the Safari omnibar for "watch The Good Wife" and the first div under the search bar is an ad to some site that was not CBS that had…

Facebook has ads that people like your mother will think are from friends. If users can't tell the different between Google Ads and search terms (or between CBS and a random site), they're unlikely to distinguish between newsfeed updates from friends and paid ads.

You're right that that's totally different from intent. But it's valuable for brands which spend billions [1] per year on exposure-focused ads, like product placement.

[1] http://adage.com/article/madisonvine-news/product-placement-...

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#108

Post by [deleted] » Tue, May 15, 2012, 10:47 PM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #88

mmaunder wrote: post #73

Facebook's root problem is intent. Users who are googling something and seeing AdWords ads are looking for something and often the thing they're looking for shows up as an ad so they - suprise! - click the ad and often become a conversion once on the site. With Facebook there is zero helpful intent. The only intent when you're on Facebook is to use Facebook. And if you do click an ad, you're less likely to become a c…

Intent is huge. I've never been one to click on Google Ads except in real rare instances. Only once I observed my mom using Google did I realize the full value of intent and google ads while searching. She wanted to watch an episode of The Good Wife that she had missed so she searched in the Safari omnibar for "watch The Good Wife" and the first div under the search bar is an ad to some site that was not CBS that had…

[deleted]

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#109

Post by trotsky » Tue, May 15, 2012, 10:49 PM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #88

mmaunder wrote: post #73

Facebook's root problem is intent. Users who are googling something and seeing AdWords ads are looking for something and often the thing they're looking for shows up as an ad so they - suprise! - click the ad and often become a conversion once on the site. With Facebook there is zero helpful intent. The only intent when you're on Facebook is to use Facebook. And if you do click an ad, you're less likely to become a c…

Intent is huge. I've never been one to click on Google Ads except in real rare instances. Only once I observed my mom using Google did I realize the full value of intent and google ads while searching. She wanted to watch an episode of The Good Wife that she had missed so she searched in the Safari omnibar for "watch The Good Wife" and the first div under the search bar is an ad to some site that was not CBS that had…

I'm not really sure if or how this should rewrite your conclusions, but cbs does stream full episodes of the good wife

http://www.cbs.com/shows/the_good_wife/video/

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#110

Post by jrockway » Tue, May 15, 2012, 10:49 PM UTC

dalore wrote: post #57

alain94040 wrote: post #23

It really depends on what you are trying to sell. It's pretty obvious that car ads would work better on Google: when you are in the market for a new car, you'll definitely google review sites. A perfect hint to start showing car ads. I don't think Facebook has the data yet to detect that you are about to buy a car. If you start liking car reviews, maybe, but that's not a typical behavior. For other products (especial…

You're confusing branding with direct call to action advertising. Two complete different things and priced differently. Big brands aren't going for the people about to buy a car, they are working way before that. By making you see the brand day after day it becomes ingrained so that when you are ready to buy a car you think GM.

Sure, because with traditional media, that was the best they could possibly hope for. In today's world of online comparison shopping, though, brands can easily close the deal for you with one click. (The fact that you can't buy a car with one click shows how hopelessly behind the industry is.)

It is not necessary to have an image of a brand planted in your mind before a purchase. It only matters that you're guided towards the brand when you are ready to buy. Advertisers were happy with a "brand image" before because it was the best they could do. But these days, it seems almost worthless.