Live data from Hacker News

Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

arstechnica.com

101–110 of 120 posts

Re: Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

#101
post #9
post #3

The slow drip of government interference means people forget what a free and open interent was like. Slowly, its becoming segmented by chickenshit regulation, censorship, and corporate control. We don't care because its only Texas and its adult content, but this is what the slow chipping away of freedom looks like: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

An alternate point of view is that one day we will look back with deep shame at this hopefully brief period where we made porn and gambling available to children instantly in limitless quantities. Not saying it’s easy to figure out how to accomplish change in a free and fair way. But the status quo is pretty clearly a horrifying outcome.

People should stop downvoting respectful disagreement. This isn't reddit.

Re: Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

#102
post #11
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An alternate point of view is that one day we will look back with deep shame at this hopefully brief period where we made porn and gambling available to children instantly in limitless quantities. Not saying it’s easy to figure out how to accomplish change in a free and fair way. But the status quo is pretty clearly a horrifying outcome.

> But the status quo is pretty clearly a horrifying outcome. Care to elaborate? This feels like all of the ads that were warning about the "dangers of gay marriage" without ever being able to name an actual danger. Just fear mongering.

I think having children and teens exposed to limitless hardcore pornography is likely harmful to them.

Maybe I’m wrong but it seems that the benefits to society of allowing this are essentially zero and the harms likely severe, so I’d support attempts to limit it as a matter of public policy.

Re: Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

#103
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The harms cannot be overstated. Proceeds to not state said harms… Maybe tell us those supposed harms.

And the punchline is they're actually vanishingly marginal and esoteric compared to those from junk food, guns, tobacco, booze, and social media.

Right?

And like is said elsewhere, how many of those problems come from the stigma around porn and sex and our inability to discuss this with friends and family without it being uncomfortable. We all (well most, asexual people exist) have sex. Most of us exist because of sex.

If we could openly talk about porn and sex, would the “problems” exist?

Too much of anything could be a problem. Video games, movies, whatever.

Re: Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me you don't have kids without using the words "I don't have kids" Kids gamble away a bunch of money from their parents all the time. Look at games like FIFA that are rated E for Everybody and all of the news articles about kids running up thousands of dollars in FIFA Ultimate Team Packs. Expecting parents to know that they need to be on the look out for their kids being able to spend unlimited money (well, up t…

I'm a parent. Like the person you responded to, I control purchases on my child's devices. It's not difficult, and if you need help with that - or any other parenting advice - just ask.

How old are your children?

It seems exceedingly unlikely to me that you’re able to prevent your children from being exposed to as much pornography as they would like once they’re past the age of 12 or so.

Re: Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

#105
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why involve the friend at all? Following your description, couldn't you have just bought the prepaid (debit) card with cash yourself? Also FWIW "laundering" is a well-defined thing that this is not, and "prepaid credit" is an oxymoron! :)

I was 12, and most of my store visits were supervised, largely because I didn't drive much. It certainly felt like laundering, but you raise a great point!

Ah parental supervision, of course!

That's a fair equivalent of government regulation and source of funds attestation requirements, so "laundering" is at least metaphorically correct! :)

Re: Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

#106

Would be better to just require all porn sites to be payment-only. Deals with addiction as well as child access. Right now, this sort of regulation seems like the purpose is a de-anonymised internet in a format that Republicans can accept.

Because addicts won’t use their money to feed an addiction? Or because people don’t get addicted to things that cost money?

It’s much harder to hide an addiction from a spouse if it’s not free.

Re: Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

#107
post #102
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the status quo is pretty clearly a horrifying outcome. Care to elaborate? This feels like all of the ads that were warning about the "dangers of gay marriage" without ever being able to name an actual danger. Just fear mongering.

I think having children and teens exposed to limitless hardcore pornography is likely harmful to them. Maybe I’m wrong but it seems that the benefits to society of allowing this are essentially zero and the harms likely severe, so I’d support attempts to limit it as a matter of public policy.

> I think

We should probably actually attempt to quantify this in more than just a feeling before talking about legislation.

> having children and teens exposed to limitless hardcore pornography is likely harmful to them.

Like above, the fact that you had to use the word "likely" means it is an argument of feeling not fact.

Which you do admit in your second sentence.

> benefits to society of allowing this are essentially zero and the harms likely severe.

I would argue the opposite. There is a major benefit to society to allow people to learn about themselves and their sexuality in a safe manner through exploring self pleasure and porn.

And then as a society de-stigmatizing sex and porn so we can have open conversations about it. So If I was 13 or 14 I could go to my parents and ask about something I saw in a video, something that may or may not be "normal". Maybe it was a BDSM scene and it felt weird that someone was "hitting" the other person. That leads into a conversation about consent and communicating what it is you do and do not want out of a sexual encounter.

That de-stigmatization also leads to discussions about what a real body looks like, how sometimes things may hurt and you may need to ask to slow down or stop. All of the unsexy things that are not shown in porn, that isn't a problem with the porn. It is meant to just be sexy. But we could talk about it.

We only think of this as abnormal because it's sexual related, but it's completely normal with video games, movies, whatever. To see something weird and to ask friends or family about it. Hopefully sparking a discussion.

Sex is a perfectly normal thing for most people and yet we treat it as this dirty secret that we shouldn't talk about.

Re: Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now we begin discussing a national firewall. With talk of regulating TikTok, I've wondered what the US would do if TikTok sent a notification saying, essentially, "just connect to our servers in China". The kids would do it, and then what? There are a few Internet regulations I've seen discussed that would require a national firewall to achieve their stated goals.

It seems outrageous to consider a national firewall in the United States, but you're absolutely right. That is where this has to go. The saddest part to me, is that it's probably going to happen. All they have to do to sell it to the the average person is to say that it's to combat CSAM and it will be palatable. They will start by making it very small, and limiting the scope to only CSAM. Then as new use cases arise,…

So the Great Wall of China is bad because it confines China, and the Great Wall of the USA is good because it confines the USA*. Oof, this kind of development is quite unsettling, especially because we see where is China going with it...

(* land of the free)

Re: Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porn isn't speech. It falls under obscenity. Questions like > What counts as a porn site? are really stale, and too often sophistic attempts at obfuscating what is rather clear. If banning the production and distribution of pornography is not possible with an outright ban, strangling this monstrous industry through onerous regulation is a pretty good tactic. And it's not new. Israel effectively requires citizens to a…

> Porn isn't speech. It falls under obscenity. In the US, you are dreadfully wrong. Also, obscenity has a very specific, and strict, definition. The second prong under the Miller test is: > Whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct or excretory functions specifically defined by applicable state law There is a large amount of porn that isn't going to satisfy this prong because…

Furthermore, the third prong is:

> Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.

Some people prefer to effectively exclude "porn" from this by definition, but I don't think that aligns with mainstream use of the term, and I also doubt that those people are using a similar standard to what would apply in a First Amendment case.

Re: Porn Sites Need Age-Verification Systems in Texas, Court Rules

#110
post #22

It's illegal at the federal level to distribute pornography to people under the age of 18. I don't understand why people don't advocate for repealing this law while at the same time saying internet companies deserve an exception to it. There is no other age-gated product, such as alcohol, tobacco, or firearms where "well they told us they were of age" is sufficient, nor does the responsibility for verification lie on…

I propose putting all age gated products under the purview of the ATF, since we are already well on our way to doing that.

I swear officer, I lost all of my old Hustler magazines in a boating accident!
Post reply on HN