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The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

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Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#101
post #15
post #4

I'm strongly in favor of expanding the US social safety net, but I don't want to neglect other obvious factors here. Dutch children are able to walk or bike outside unsupervised. In the US they'd risk either being killed by a driver, or stopped by an overzealous neighbor or police officer. I think this kind of freedom of movement has a big effect on happiness, it certainly did for me. ETA relevant links: https://yout…

> In the US they'd risk either being killed by a driver, or stopped by an overzealous neighbor or police officer. It may depends on where in the US you're talking about, but in my area none of this is actually true. Although lots of people believe it is.

I wonder if there's an urban/suburban/rural or political divide when it comes to this.

I live in a suburb in California and have never ran into this problem. But we're also unincorporated and don't have cops with nothing better to do than harass some kid walking to school alone.

We're also surrounded by people whose kids are now in their 20s-30s. They don't see our kids running around as a nuisance - they're relatively new empty nesters and the kids seem to evoke nostalgia as they discuss the different things their kids did around the neighborhood when they were young.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#102
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a good example as almost no-one has a salary that high. For software engineers you're looking at say 90-100K as an average maximum, with vast majority earning less than that. Edit to cover your edit: it's certainly not free labour, I happily pay my taxes because I believe I'm getting quiet something in return.

It is free labor. You giving your income to the government is equivalent to doing free work. And of course, some level of that is required. I'm not anti-tax, I'm anti wasteful tax. And to my mind, requiring 30%-50% of everyones created value, just to maintain society, is enormously wasteful. There is no way in hell an efficient society actually requires that level of income tax of everyone.

> There is no way in hell an efficient society actually requires that level of income tax of everyone

If there's no way in hell you can sure back up that claim with sources? I personally cannot think of a single country with what I would consider to be a somewhat efficient society that has a significantly lower tax rate. On the contrary, as established upthread, in the US which many Americans pride themselves on being low tax, the effective tax rate is not far off, and American society is drastically less efficient or comfortable than e.g. Dutch one.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#103
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the US they'd risk either being killed by a driver, or stopped by an overzealous neighbor or police officer. It may depends on where in the US you're talking about, but in my area none of this is actually true. Although lots of people believe it is.

Overzealous neighbors in the US will have someone's house sold out from under them when the grass is too high and they don't pay the fines to the HOA for mowing it. The idea that they'll be ok with children wandering around unsupervised is preposterous on its face. The cops might not care either way, but only until the busybodies start nagging. Especially the sort of busybodies that live in the places where any sane…

Most American homes don't have HOAs. Don't buy homes that do. HOAs should severely undervalue a property automatically. HOAs are anti-democratic. It's easier to get rid of a city than an HOA.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#104
post #88

I had a simmilar experiance in Iceland, compared to my home country (Australia). Some examples: * The birth of our son cost us a total of $50. That was parking fees and a bed for me in the same room as my Partner. Who had a 30 hour labor and an emergancy C-Section. * For the first couple of weeks we had a nurse coming over and checking up on the health of my partner and son. Organized and paid for by the goverment. *…

> I went to my boss to appologize and offer to take holiday days or something, and he laughed at me and said "No! I knew this was going to happen, your a new parent, look after your child!".

This is just a nice boss, not a social policy. There are plenty of nice bosses anywhere; and plenty of shitty ones.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#105
As someone from an Asian background that grew up in the United States, I'm shocked at how many of my friends parents refuse / don't want to look after their grandchildren. My parents watch our kids multiple times per week, and I seemed to have married a relative unicorn amongst Anglo-Saxons because my in-laws watch them as well.

I think this is a highly under-rated reason why birthrates are falling. Grandparenting is actually a big deal, and we need to encourage it more. It's like the fatherhood campaigns we used to have. Don't be a deadbeat grandma / grandpa... it's not cool.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#106

> "Dutch parenting" allowing kids to bike in the rain... That's how I grew up IN America. So what is parenting in America now?

Do you see kids biking or running around on their own in the US now?

No?

We’ll then, there’s your answer

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#107
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is free labor. You giving your income to the government is equivalent to doing free work. And of course, some level of that is required. I'm not anti-tax, I'm anti wasteful tax. And to my mind, requiring 30%-50% of everyones created value, just to maintain society, is enormously wasteful. There is no way in hell an efficient society actually requires that level of income tax of everyone.

> There is no way in hell an efficient society actually requires that level of income tax of everyone If there's no way in hell you can sure back up that claim with sources? I personally cannot think of a single country with what I would consider to be a somewhat efficient society that has a significantly lower tax rate. On the contrary, as established upthread, in the US which many Americans pride themselves on bein…

The burden of proof is on the people claiming that level of taxation is required in the first place. If taxes need to be that high, its on high tax proponents to justify it, not on everyone else to justify why we shouldn't raise them higher.

If you stop to think about it, there are only 3 possibilities: 1) Taxes are perfectly calibrated to exactly what they need to be. 2) Taxes are less than they need to be. 3) Taxes are more than they need to be.

Perfect calibration is nearly impossible. So that leaves 2 and 3. Which do you think is more likely of a corruption-prone organization that takes income through the implicit threat of physical violence?

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#108
This article accidentially exposes a lot about what's wrong with the US and or western countries in general ... but ... well ... dominantly the US.

Touching the title in a minute, "even when it means permitting them to bike in the rain." already gives a great insight into how utterly clueless she is about what's wrong with her.

*There is nothing wrong with having your child biking during rain.*

"But the kid could get wet and sick." Yeah, well, so what? Congratulations, you're experiencing Life. What if it doesn't get sick? What if this is actually great for the immune system? What if the kid's body "hardens up" a little and it won't get sick next time? Ever thought that through? No? Why?

Anyhow.

"it’s the Dutch social safety net that permits parents to feel safe and secure enough to allow their children this broad freedom and independence."

It is scary that the person who wrote that article actually has no fucking clue what a family is, what friends are, what the word community actually means.

She writes about stuff that used to be the norm and, in most of the rest of the world still is, as if she never experienced them, and ... she apparently didn't.

For the most part of my life, where i live, nobody cared about feeling safe and secure. That's just the obvious US bias she has, because she fucking doesn't.

To actively desire feeling safe and secure one has to live in fear. Where there is no fear, there is no need to desire feeling safe and secure. The whole idea is foreign.

Before the people of the US started living in constant fear, kids played outside. Kids were allowed to hurt themselves. Kids were allowed to play on the road.

People actually trusted each other. They trusted each other with their kids, too.

Anyways, this is all wrong. The happiest kids in the world are those who have parents that raise them with things like curiosity, integrity, dignity, respect, responsibility, a sense for self-improvement. You know, what people often refer to as "values". Sprinkled with actual empathy, instead of morals.

Instead, in the USm they raise their kids to become narcissistic, self entitled, insecure wannabes who care more about their opinions and ideology than about reality and the truth. They raise their kids to lie about literally everything, because an honest thought or feeling expressed towards someone might "hurt" them.

They raise their kids into believing they can do what they want, they can be what they want, they can get what they want, without ever teaching them how to actually know what they actually want and how to achieve what they want.

And how should they? Why should they? Where's the sense for self-improvement supposed to come from, when everyone's supposedly equal and the losers get Participation Trophies so they don't need to feel bad?

The one thing, feeling bad about losing, is literally one of the biggest drivers of self-improvement. "I want to be better than that" turns into a completely foreign idea when everyone constantly being told they're great and even the losers get Trophies anyway!

People with talents aren't talented, they're gifted. The idea, that someone actually might self-improve, is being removed in favour of the idea that one has literally nothing to do with it.

Anyhow!

"But what seems to be frustratingly glossed over in these case studies is the acknowledgment that it is an economic luxury to raise happy, confident kids who pay attention to the environment around them."

No. It fucking isn't. Again, not her fault, she has no clue.

Money doesn't raise good kids. Good parents raise good kids. Period.

It does not, in any way or form, have anything to do with economic luxury. Good parents raise good kids. Period. They can be poor and good parents, they can be rich and good parents. Asshole parents can be poor, or rich. Doesn't matter, they'll be assholes regardless.

Making "economic luxury" a requirement for raising good kids into good adults is greatly underlining that she has no fucking clue what the fuck she's actually talking about. I have little doubt that she never experienced actually good parents, never experienced being raised into a self-responsible, self-confident, self-improving personality and never experienced the base level of human normalcy most of the rest of the world has not yet actually forgotten.

And that's not only not her fault, it most likely also isn't her parents fault. Can't blame people for being raised into a fucked up, artificially created normalcy.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a blog post a while back that had the idea that the reason so many American's remember their college years so fondly is because for many of them it was the only time in their lives where they lived somewhere walkable.

It also a time living in an unnatural community not subject all the issues that exist in the outside world. Campuses are not functionally independent entities. They are artificial environments funded from the outside to fulfill a specific purpose. Spend time on a military base. They are also great places in which to live. Easy commutes, local services, great security, very low unemployment and most are very walkable.…

I think you are being unfairly downvoted. Campuses have the ability to do things like expel their residents and physically remove trespassers, which is only possible in the most draconian gated communities in the “real world.” They filter for things like SES and at least a nominal desire to learn. They can shunt the really hard problems, and problematic people, to the rest of society.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#110
post #88

I had a simmilar experiance in Iceland, compared to my home country (Australia). Some examples: * The birth of our son cost us a total of $50. That was parking fees and a bed for me in the same room as my Partner. Who had a 30 hour labor and an emergancy C-Section. * For the first couple of weeks we had a nurse coming over and checking up on the health of my partner and son. Organized and paid for by the goverment. *…

i'm unfamiliar with any law making kids below twelve walking to school illegal, if it is then a decent portion of my class in primary school were breaking the law, unless it being fine is just a queensland thing. there have been scares sure, events that make parents afraid to let their children walk to school unsupervised, but at the very least where i grew up buses were only the norm because of how spread out the area was

(edit: to be clear iceland sounds amazing and overall i think i agree with you but i'm genuinely curious about the walking alone being illegal part because that wasnt my experience growing up)

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